Steve Jobs: Adobe is Lazy, Google's 'Don't be Evil' Motto is BS

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As we reported earlier, Apple had an all-hands meeting this week where, according to Wired, Steve Jobs went on a rant about other companies in Apple's ecosystem.  

According to an employee at the meeting, workers were able to ask Steve Jobs anything they wanted that involved the company and their new iPad product. Putting the actual iPad device and its specifications to the side, Apple employees were eager to know about the ongoing situations with Google and Adobe. When Jobs was asked by an employee his thoughts on Google and their competetion Jobs remarked:

On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil mantra: “It’s bullshit.” Audience roars.  

About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.    

Interesting that Jobs is again rallying the troops.   Both Google and Flash are hot topics of discussion with the release of the iPad this week.

Update, new information has come come to light, below:

MacRumors got the following report from the meeting:
- Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with
- iPad is up there with the iPhone and Mac as the most important products Jobs has been a part of
- Regarding the Lala acquisition, Apple was interested in bringing those people into the iTunes team
- Next iPhone coming is an A+ update
- New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level
- Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it.

 

Comments (89)

Sounds about right to me. This is what I've thought all along (on both topics) so I'm glad Steve agrees.

Depending on one's perspective Apple is either evil or lazy for:

1. lying about Flash operating on iPad.
2. lack of adequate quality control for the new iMacs.

Jobs should take a closer look at Apple's faults, foibles, and fiascos before railing against others. Jobs hasn't a moral leg to stand on.

You must not own a Mac. The fact that one of the major features of Snow Leopard (10.6) was that browser plug-ins are now sandboxed (for the sole purpose of preventing Flash from tanking the whole browser) is evidence enough of why Flash should not be ported to iPhone/iPad. I know I'm in the minority in thinking on this, but Adobe can't write a decent Flash port to save their life. When it was in Macromedia's hands, it was pretty stable. Flash 7 was the last decently stable version on the Mac platform. Personally, I'd like to see Flash opened as an open standard, such that other people with decent coding ability might be able to implement a plugin that doesn't crash within 30 seconds of loading. As for other Adobe products, consider the once great partnership Adobe/Apple had. Adobe always released it's premier versions on the Mac. They started focusing on Windows development, and kept their code in Carbon, despite STRONG pushes from Apple to the entire development community that Carbon was only a stop-gap for porting existing apps to OS X from OS 9. 10 years later, and they still haven't done the re-write in Cocoa, and now we have a situation where 64-bit access is not possible, since Apple basically stopped supporting Carbon beyond 32-bit instructions. Even Microsoft has re-written Office for Mac in Cocoa. Adobe's programmers should start focusing on speed and stability rather than re-writing UI features every release and adding more bloat. Oh, and port the damned thing to Cocoa, so you can finally have 64 bit compilation. (I can think of few more worthy apps for hogging memory than Adobe products.)

As for your second point, the only affected model of new iMac is specifically the 27" Quad Core i7, and the problem actually exists with the video processor. Yup -- parts are, from time to time, problematic on any platform. That Apple has so few models and is the point of blame for any products on the mac platform insists that a big spotlight is shined whenever something like this happens. Apple has had problems with other products in the past. So has Dell, HP, and others. But, the fact remains, report after report shows that OVERALL Apple is by and large more reliable hardware than other manufactures, which honestly, I kind of find strange. After all, the whole industry makes parts from parts bins and a handful of Chinese companies manufacture most of the parts that go inside our computers.

Why must I not own a Mac? I would be a proud owner of a replacement iMac, but current quality control issues with iMac have put a halt to my purchase.

If, as you allude, Apple prevents Flash from operating on OS X, why do you think it was justifiable for Apple to have misrepresented on its website the fact that Flash operated on iPad? Are you suggesting that Apple is incapable of designing a product that makes Flash functionally obsolete?

Adobe is an independent company as is Apple. Either can do whatever they believe is in the best interest of their customers and shareholders. It is frivolous that Jobs chastises Adobe when Jobs has no authority to dictate policy or strategy to Adobe. It make jobs look weak and vindictive.

I couldn't care less what problems HP, Dell, or whoever has designing, fabricating, and shipping their machines. I don't want a PC, I want a Mac. It's a poor excuse to say Apple's quality control problems are as pathetic as HP's or Dell's, and certainly does not benefit Apple's long-term supporters. I expect better from Apple than being as good as Dell. Actually, I would be curious to know what recent new product lines from the top ten PC manufacturers have captured the same public attention for product failure as the new iMac. Please, enlighten me!

"If, as you allude, Apple prevents Flash from operating on OS X, why do you think it was justifiable for Apple to have misrepresented on its website the fact that Flash operated on iPad? "

They corrected this. Now the website video clearly shows that the iPad does not do Flash.

I've been programming Flash since 2000. Flash is bloated. Flash is not standard. Flash is a (slowly) dying platform. I no longer program in Flash and concentrate more on AJAX and have started to dabble into HTML 5. That is the future, not Flash.

Why, if Flash is history Jobs became so worked up about it? If there is a new and better standard why isn't it universally available? Why, if Flash is history Apple thought it necessary to depict Flash operating on iPad?

As far as I can tell, he didn't get worked up about flash, he was just stating a fact: flash is dying and so in order to embrace the future there's no point embracing old technology.

The new and better standard is HTML5 and it's new and it is universally available. More and more companies are adopting it including YouTube who are doing a beta test in HTML5 and if it goes well, will drop flash like a sack of potatoes. The sooner the better if you ask me.

As far as your original point goes with Jobs poking fun at other companies while Apple isn't perfect - they all do it! Adobe, Microsoft, Dell etc all slag off Apple but their products are far inferior but it doesn't stop them does it? Get over it, everybody slags other people off while they're not so prefect themselves.

And why Apple thought it necessary to depict flash on the iPad? Well, they didn't. They have an advertising company who clearly hadn't thought about this. With commercials, what you see isn't always the truth. In order to get the iPad looking vibrant and cool in the advert they took a screenshot of the page from a computer and pasted it over what was probably a blue or green screen on the iPad. They do this because in a properly lit studio the video camera filming the scene wouldn't show the iPad as it does in real life, it would look darker, possibly with strobing etc so in order to get around the technical limitations it's easier to fix it in post.

Jobs does not exude quite confidence when he rants about Adobe to his staff. If HTML 5 will supplant Flash Jobs needs to ensure that this technology is quickly and easily transferred. Wasting his breath berating obsolete technology is ridiculous and unbecoming. I expect more maturity from the CEO of Apple.

I couldn't care less if other CEOs or company figureheads engage in gratuitous mudslinging and name calling. Jobs ought to be more professional, mature, and circumspect than to imitate the bufoonish behavior of others.

Actually, Apple did falsely represent iPad running Flash on Apple's own website. Whether Apple knowingly collaborated with its ad agency in promulgating this lie or failed to verify the veracity of the ad is immaterial. In either case, the Apple allowed the ad's placement on its website before Apple withdrew it.

The fact that Jobs opened his mouth to ridicule and chastise Adobe while Apple falsely depicted iPad running Flash was the stimulus for this controversy. Had Jobs simply kept his mouth shut the iPad-Flash advertising fiasco would have been largely ignored. Thanks to Steve Jobs he made it front page news.

Here is the reason for Jobs' departure from rationality,

dailytech.com/Windows+7+is+Fastestselling+OS+in+History+Microsoft+Posts+Huge+Earnings/article17551.htm

Apple better get busy finalizing 10.6.3. and fixing those damn iMacs.

Only reason why it's the fastest OS selling in History is because Vista was the Largest BOMB in History and people bought into it!

Steve Jobs: “No one will be using Flash (...) The world is moving to HTML5” ..and Quartz Composer?

There are speculations regarding Apple consistently rejecting Adobe Flash support. Some people suggest this action is intentional.

Not many people know that Apple just recruited Christopher Wright, a community well known developer from Kineme to join Apple’s Quartz Composer development team.

Apple may be just working on iPad/iPhone version of it’s GPU accelerated, ultra-fast technology called Quartz Composer. It doesn’t seem to be a distant future.

If you are using Safari browser on a Mac you can actually see Quartz Compositions embedded on the website: http://quartzcomposer.com/patches/205-glow-qtz

Adobe with it’s 98% of desktop computers supporting Flash (source: Adobe) versus Apple’s Quartz Composer 8% [1] sounds like an interesting battle. Let’s just remember that Apple mobile phone applications market share few years back was 0%. Now it’s 99%.

References:
* Safari market share http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/03/february-2009-third-party-...
* “Steve Jobs: Adobe is Lazy, Google's 'Don't be Evil' Motto is BS” http://www.9to5mac.com/steve%20jobs-google-dont-be-evil-42382438
* “Apple hires Quartz Composer developer” http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/02/12/company.looking.expand.on.app.vis...
* “Did Steve Jobs just kill Flash?” http://www.theprovince.com/technology/story.html?id=2518355
* http://quartzcomposer.com – will become Adobe Flash killer?

Flash provides too many non-paying alternatives to buying stuff from Apple, like Hulu. We can't have that.

I totally agree with you. Adobe has been practically doing nothing with Flash since they bought it nearly 10 years ago. All the great innovation stopped then. It's merely a poor man's DRM in a continuous bug fixing mode.

In the mean time, Microsoft has come out with Silverlight to act as major competition; HTML5, w/ H264, SVG and JS are very compelling in their own right.

What has Adobe done about to advance the art? Hello? Adobe?

Oh yeah - like it was said - Adobe is lazy. WTF do they do all day?

Photoshop and the others.

Great! They should stick with Photoshop and In Design and Illustrator and fonts (ie, the print stuff).

You also need to remember that Flash didn't come from Adobe originally. It came from Macromedia. Maybe there's some "Not Invented Here" problem internally. Nonetheless, it appears that Adobe really aren't willing or capable of keeping Flash working on non-Windows systems (complaints about performance on Linux are as bad, if not worse than on Mac).

They're suffering a failure to commit resources to programming for anything but Windows. In other words, laziness.

It seems to me that Adobe is heading down the same road as MS...

Steve Jobs has no authority over anyone at Adobe, so his comments are absolutely ineffective. Worse still is his appearing as a whining, impotent, and crass individual. STFU and fix Apple's problem first, Jobs.

You don't get it, do you?

Web developers are moving away from Flash. 5-7 years ago every web developer I knew was building (or was asked to build) flash sites frequently. But they eventually caught on that Google can't index Flash pages ... nevermind the slow plugins on non-Windows platforms.

The iPhone is the biggest mobile phone platform out there. By not supporting Flash, they've given many web developers the excuse they need to get away from it. Now HTML5 is helping even more.

Nobody's asked me to build a Flash site in over a year, and that's something that I'm very happy about. By not supporting it on the iPad, it's only going to be better.

HTML 5, open web standards and semantic markup ALL THE WAY BABY!

Well, that certainly begs the question. if Flash is history why did Jobs go on a rant? Was Jobs on the pad? If Flash is history why did Apple falsely depict the iPad running Flash?

Seriously...why don't your troll some other site? Jobs went on a rant, as you say, because people won't shut up about it. Unfortunately, it is people like yourself that don't understand that running Flash on the iPhone would be a bad thing. I don't need my phone crashing. You also don't understand the importance of HTML5 and how that makes Flash exceedingly obsolete. Have you tried Google Voice's new web app for the iPhone? All HTML5 and is quite awesome. YouTube has just opened up a beta for HTML5 served pages instead of via Flash. So HTML5 is here, just in the early stages.

If HTML 5 is the greatest thing and will supplant Flash I still can't understand Jobs having to hurl insults at Adobe. Why waste his breath and his energy. He is sick you know.

I also don't understand if Flash is nothing more than royal a pain in the ass why Apple felt compelled to depict Flash running on iPad.

If other people won't shut up about "it" (whatever you meant by "it") why does Jobs have to go on a rant? Can't the CEO of Apple act with more decorum than a 7th grade class clown or prepubescent drama queen?

I don't own an iPhone because ATT services in my location is piss poor. Whether or not Flash runs on iPhone has no significance to me. I really haven't a clue why you thought I cared.

I've been using Apple products since 1980, which is probably long before you were out of diapers. I've paid my dues. When I have a complaint or concern about Apple, Apple's products, or Apple's figurehead I don't need your permission to voice it, sonny.

Photoshop? Really? Adobe adds AH new feature and gives it a new CS number. That should be an update, not a new suite. Not to mention adobe hasn't updated there shit UI in forever. Adobe really is lazy as shit.

Where is Apple's response to Adobe's laziness? For all the Apple geniuses in Cupertino ostensibly dreaming up new and better ways of doing things, the only thing Apple can do is have Steve Jobs mutter a few invectives. Adobe might be lazy, but Apple is apparently incompetent and or impotent for not providing users an alternative. If Jobs put as much energy into Adobe bashing as product development the world would be Apple's.

Come on Apple, buy Adobe- you've got the money.

Two things:

(1) This is rumor/speculation. These comments were not disclosed externally, if they even came at all. I wouldn't be shocked if they were accurate, but bear that in mind with a grain of salt.

(2) Apple HAS provided an alternative to flash in the form of Javascript, CSS, HTML5, and H.264. Safari supports all of the above. Webkit development is VERY sophisticated, if exploited to their potential. You can put animation in your code now to emulate the vector animations of Flash. HTML5 adds offline databases, embedded video sans plugins, etc. H.264 is an industry standard for video (though I still prefer open video formats that are sans licensing fees, like OGG.) If the world moved to standard technologies instead of relying on proprietary plugins, there's already a TON of great things you can do to make your pages look AMAZING without the use of plugins. Given that the future is mobile, it seems relying on plugins is an increasingly bad idea.

Ridiculous. If Apple has the solution to Adobe's Flash what inspired Jobs' rant. Was he on the pad?

Why are you ranting about the "why is Steve Jobs ranting about flash"? It' the third time you've mentioned it. STFU.

Testy aren't you? I thought you fanbois had a higher level of consciousness or something like that.

Flash has gained tremendous new features every release - that was a silly comment.

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