Papers from a failed class action suit by Apple Store staff reveal that at least two retail employees complained directly to CEO Tim Cook about the policy of subjecting them to anti-theft bag checks before they left the store. Tim Cook forwarded the complaints to senior retail and HR executives, asking “Is this true?” …
The 2013 class action suit argued that employees should be paid for the 10-15 minutes they spent after each shift in queues for security checks before they were allowed to leave the store. Since the checks were mandatory, staff said, the time should be paid. The case failed, the court ruling that the checks were not part of the job they were paid to do, and so employees should not be paid for the time. The court cited precedent in a similar failed case by Amazon workers.
Reuters reports that papers just unsealed by the court reveal that other employees in the case went further, arguing that the checks – sometimes carried out in full view of customers – were not just time-consuming but also demeaning.
“These procedures are often performed in front of gawking customers,” the employee wrote, adding that workers deserve to be treated with the same respect that Apple shows customers.
Another email, sent by a retail worker in Beijing to Cook and other managers in 2013, said Apple treats its employees “as animals” and thieves.
Cook’s response beyond the query is not revealed, though Apple’s VP of human resources Denise Young Smith is on record as saying that “there has to be a more intelligent and respectful” approach to theft-deterrence.
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Apple, and especially Tim Cook is better than this. Store security for employees should be totally invisible.
It’s in Apple rights to search their employees without pay. I have had retail jobs were we couldn’t leave the store after it closing until all the employees were searched. Is it unconventional, yes.
Working in a store you know where security is and isn’t, and cameras can’t cover the entire store. It’s not an invasion of privacy or should the company owe you for your time.
“It’s in Apple rights to search their employees without pay”.
Hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha!
“It’s in Apple rights to search their employees without pay.”
Nice where’d you get your law degree?
The judge in the class action lawsuit already ruled that these arches were not a work action and declared Apple didn’t owe them any money. You should look at rulings on employers rights and see how much power they have.
“It’s in Apple rights to search their employees without pay.” Actually, it may very well not be, hence the lawsuit. There are provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act and other employment laws that discuss paying employees before and after actual work for time in preparation for work, things like getting dressed, etc. I cannot speak to your circumstances, but I suspect, your previous employer(s) either paid you or if they didn’t, because you couldn’t leave until you were “searched,” they may have been in violation.
I don’t get paid to drive to work either. You get paid to do a particular job. Steps needed (commuting, clearing security, etc) to get in/out of your job are not compensated. No idea why anyone thinks you can sue over that.
Hobby Lobby is the company I was working for. A supposedly very Christian orientated company that went to the surpreme court and won on having to provide insurance that gave the morning after pill.
They routinely made us wait 15 for bag searches and stay in the store until everyone left together for safety reasons.
The companies don’t owe you for every second your on the property. They dont pay you to drive to work, for gas to go to lunch, and not for a few minutes to check bags like Apple was doing.
They are many worker rights issues that need addresses in this country like holiday time. The U.S. ranks near the bottom of the list for average time off
Short and sweet:
– Check my bag before I leave, sure.
– Not pay me for the time it takes, hell no. If I’m there, you’re paying me, period.
– Doing it in public, hell no. Beyond being a poor customer experience, it’s no one’s business what security precautions are used, and to be frank, doing that in public communicates your security measures to potential thieves.
A trip to the Apple store should be like a trip to Disney. I don’t see them checking bags for stolen Micky Mouse figures.
You don’t have to be an employee. There are other options to earn a living out there. I have not been an employee since I was 19. Either enjoy being an employee, or choose a different path, but complaining doesn’t help anyone.
Complaining doesn’t help anyone? Interesting. It seems to have gotten Tim Cook’s attention. And there are, you know, a few hundred years of labor history that show how “complaining” helped secure things like eight hour workdays, mandatory breaks, uniform wages, workplace safety, etc.
This is nothing NEW and is extremely common to retail workers. And yes, some
managers do have a “re all potential thieves attitude” when rifling through your belongings.
Considering this lawsuit was from 2013 has anything changed?
The court systems failure in the Amazon ruling notwithstanding, the checks are part of the job management is paid to do. Does the court think employees are the vassals of management, to be made available at no pay while management takes its own sweet time doing its job? Seems like a real case of anti-worker judicial activism gone astray.
Not only should the process be invisible to the public, it should be on the clock, just to insure Apple has the same skin in the game as the workers. When store management steals 15 minutes a day from the workers private lives that time is lost to them forever. Let’s say a worker has 15 minutes a day stolen from them by store management, 4 days a week and they work for Apple for a year. That’s two days of their lives just gone.
Just because the law doesn’t require Apple to do the right thing, no one is stopping them. Apple, we both know you’re better than this. Do the right thing.
But store management did NOT steal 15 minutes a day from employees. What this story here seems to forget, is that there were cameras these employees did not know about, that Apple had security video of the searches. Review of the video found that the longest wait was, IIRC, 20 seconds. So, the actual basis of the lawsuit was a flat-out lie–and it would be interesting to see those responses…
Never underestimate the ability of Internet readers to get offended by incomplete or otherwise half-read posts on things they know nothing about.
Nice allegation. Pretty shade of red (herring). The basic rule in question is “Employer, when I’m doing what you require me to do, you pay me. When you are not paying me, my time is my own. All of it. Twenty seconds or twenty minutes is irrelevant.”
I worked at an Apple store for 3 years. Speaking from experience (and it may differ in other stores), we just walked by a manager on our way out the door with our bag open. They peaked in, smiled, and said “Have a nice day”. It barely broke my stride.
Just caught this from a more recent linked story. I worked in Apple Retail for 8 years in various capacities and having watched procedure evolve, I can tell you like many jobs, your manager dictates procedure (i.e. some stores may be better about making bag checks quick and painless than others), and bag checks could often take much longer than 20 secs (I don’t know what footage was viewed to prove such a short time). I’ve clocked it over the years and in two stores I worked at, it would range (presuming I didn’t have a manager who just pretended to check bc they didn’t care) from 3 min (if someone was near avail) to 17 min. I didn’t join in this suit for two reasons. First, I had no expectation they would win. Second, I learned very quickly to clock out after the bag check. I got paid for that extra time (however little). If I was gonna be stuck there, damn right I’m getting paid for it. When something comes to Denise’s attention, she’s pretty good about jumping on it and putting in some reform. Real problem at the stores is a lack of follow through and consistentcy from leadership. Ask anyone who’se been there for more than a year. 😉
This is stupid.
During every retail job I’ve ever had, I’ve had to do bag checks before leaving the store. I’ve clocked out and had to wait a few minutes and was completely OK. They are not demeaning. I think it’s bullshit and annoying, but opening a lawsuit and claiming such things is even worse.
Just curious, did you have to do them in front of the customers? That’s the only thing about this that makes me a little bit uneasy. I can understand doing bag checks for employees, but why not do it in private with mutual respect for everyone, including the customers.
Imagine this whole thing in a store that has hundreds and hundreds of employees, say their 5th Avenue store. At any given time (and all at the SAME time), 100 people could be getting off work and getting their bags checked all at once. No manager is scheduled to check bags for a living, so somebody has to stop whatever they’re doing, and go through all those belongings. Word is this can take up to 1/2 hour. Every day. All year long. For years and years. This bag check ONLY benefits Apple, so why shouldn’t they pay people? I say punch out AFTER bag check. I figure if somebody’s making me do anything other than what I want to do, I’m getting paid. Full time’s about 260 days a year, right? Times a 1/2 hour is 3 full weeks PLUS some OT that you give away FOR FREE. Nope. No deal. Nothing’s free.
Good points…when I was thinking about this I didn’t consider the larger more popular Apple Stores.
Thank god for German law. Here you get paid for the time you have to spent for bag-checking (I know because I am working at a retail store). And it is definitely right because the bag-checking is in the interest of the company not of the employee.
Wow…a lot of sheep in the Apple community.
First off, the Amazon lawsuit decision was roundly panned. It hinged solely on the idea that, basically, your employer can do all kinds of things to you because you have the “right” to go find another job. Well, that’s true, as far as it goes, but if it were ENTIRELY true, we’d not need minimum wages or employment law at all. There are boundaries and it was pretty clear Amazon violated them, the court just didn’t have the state law to support any other decision. The court actually said that Amazon should be finding another way of doing the checks.
But that Tim Cook KNEW of these, and nothing substantially changed is pretty disheartening. It is rather like when President Obama publicly makes statements about stuff but then doesn’t use the undisputed powers that he has to do ANYTHING about it. (See rescheduling marijuana, for instance; and contrast with all the stupid things he’s tried to do with powers he DOESN’T actually have.) Cook could have made changes instantly, and obviously didn’t. To me, that displays an amount of “fakeness”.
Apple claims to hold itself to a HIGHER standard than others. That Amazon got off the hook for treating overwhelming majority of their good employees like criminals doesn’t mean that Apple should have followed that path. There are MANY other ways to deal with employee theft. And one way is by treating your employees good, and putting skin in the game. If you pay your employees for those extra 10 or 15 minutes, it SHOWS something. If you try to take time from your employees’ lives without compensating them, it shows something else. I can’t imagine that Apple wants to foster employees who resent the company; but on the other hand, the long list of abusive behavior that has come out of Apple Retail (both to the employees and customers) belies a different view.
Tell that to @taoprophet420 above hahahahah
One more example of justice not happening. How can this be normal?
I understand the “bag check”, as employees have access to equipment that the general public does not have. I also understand that an employee found with stolen merchandise is facing arrest and immediate loss of his job – all of these things are in the store’s best interest.
So, common sense would be that you submit to the search, and immediately after the search you punch out and head home (or jail – depending upon personal choices). To have a person held captive, waiting until a member of management, or security, gets around to performing the search seems unduly harsh – as it in the store’s best interest to have management or security service customers first, and off-duty employees as the lowest priority.
In effect – you are telling your staff that they are not trusted, respected and that their time means less than nothing. You will allow them to leave, when you are finished doing the lowest priority task you have on your list.
My daughter worked at a clothing store with the same policy. All new employees were given a clear backpack by the company that was approved to bring personal articles to the store. You could not use your own backpack or rucksack. My daughter pared down the amount of personal stuff she would pack and bring to work and leave the balance in the car. Problem solved.
Easy to say that, but harder for others to do. Some people take prescription or over-the-counter medication they don’t want others to know they take, women usually have feminine hygiene products in their bags, et cetera.
If the company tells employees about the clear plastic bags prior to hiring them, fine. If they don’t tell them until they come in the first day for work, that’s a problem. Yes, the employee then has the option to quit (on the first day), but that’s a hard thing to do considering they most likely left a previous job to go to that new job.
I have worked Retail loss prevention, Stores can loose as much by Employee theft as they can by non-employees. There is nothing deeming about it. People need stop being so sensitive.
Just because they may (or may not) have the legal right to do this doesn’t mean they should—Cook and Apple should be above this. “Surely, there must be a better way . . . . “
And Apple employees should be above stealing, but it happens anyway….
I 100% agree. I think they should pay them for the time, and work at bringing the supposed 15 minute checks time down. Sure, the check isn’t what the employee is paid to do, big deal, as an employee I’m frequently asked to fulfil duties by my company that fall outside the role I was originally hired to perform. I don’t turn around and say it’s not my problem, I go ahead and perform the task and in return I expect that they’ll pay me for it.
I’m not saying that this is right or that it should be ignored.
But what a wonderful world we live in when a 15 minute bag check is one of the biggest “issues” in some of our lives!
Let me quote someone above you since you obviously don’t understand math or numbers, “Full time’s about 260 days a year, right? Times a 1/2 hour is 3 full weeks PLUS some OT that you give away FOR FREE.” If you want to crawl into a hole I dig you for 3 weeks for free, come, I’ll dig the hole for you.
The problem with Apple is the massive divide between retail and corporate. Retail staff are treated like infants and are trained to regurgitate ridiculous language such as “Hey,can I give you some feedback”, “I’m just trying to seek to understand” and “Hey, great call out! I’ll definitely try it that way next time, thanks for the feedback! :D” . They certainly don’t talk that way over in corp, which is why so many retail staff find it so hard to adjust when the mother-ship comes calling. Send the execs to an Apple Retail Store for 1 week, and see how they cope.
There’s a divide because essentially they are totally seperate worlds, hence the big difference in pay.
every “retail” job I’ve ever had either searched their employees in the back and followed them to the exits or search the employee. in front of anybody and everybody as they were leaving the store. unless other details are presented i have zero issue with this.
I worked retail from the week I turned 16 through 22 years old. I never once had to submit to a search. One of my retail jobs was at a national cell phone carrier’s retail store where I had access to phones worth hundreds of dollars each (retail price), $50-100 Bluetooth headsets, and headphones. There were cameras everywhere in the front and in the back of the store. I was allowed to bring my bag in, which I did because I rode the bus from campus to the store prior to bringing my car to campus.
I understand employee theft is a problem at a lot of companies, but not every company checks bags. If a company does check bags they should do so out of the view of customers and do so as respectful as possible. Body searches/pat downs are a big no no.
Everyone knows employees are the largest percentage of stolen goods. Bunch of cry babies that complain about being searched when leaving work, big deal.
What if i didn’t have a bag? Or what if i had a locker to lock my bag in before entering the sales floor?
I agree the searches should be done in private- customers have no business seeing employees go through security checks, they’re at the store to shop. However, I think the searches are completely justified. Employees steal, and the more you show you’re not checking, the easier it is for people to reach for the temptation. It’s not treating people like criminals, it’s conducting basic checks to ensure their profits aren’t leaving with the people running their stores.
Besides, if you’re not stealing as an employee, what do you have to worry about? I got a few checks working electronics for Target, and I didn’t see it as a big deal. It’s not like they sit you in the middle of the store and berate you.
Until you run a retail store with 60 to literally hundreds of employees coming and going, you are always run the risk of hiring a couple of ‘bad Apples” hear and there and they have to take what security measures they feel is necessary.
Surely in the age of RFID tags and scanners on exits this is unnecessary? Monitor the exits and wait for the scanners to go off? Or is it only in Australia we have these devices?
This is a first world problem… all those people in places like china that have real work problems — so bad that the law states they can work up to 60 hours a week… Apple is one of the better companies in china, but it still has issues — including people crammed into a single room while they sleep in dormitories and dont see their families for months, sometimes years… and they all line up for lectures, stand up for meetings, wait to be searched etc etc… They have general reasons to complain based on money, living conditions, privacy, etc etc… but many stay quiet out of fear of losing their jobs because they need that job…
Instead you have greedy americans who get lots of discounts by working for apple, have a good salary compared to other computer/electric shops etc etc… yet they feel just to complain that they miss out on a few cents a day — if an apple employee was getting $8 per hour – thats 13cents per minute…
The only thing is shocking is that the bag searches are conducted in public view — thats the only thing they need to change…
Americans often scream “we have rights”… sometimes you just need to be happy you have a job, have money coming in, and have a place to live — you get plenty of holidays, you get a decent salary, you live better than most countries (maybe you should go visit your neighbours in mexico or further south on the connecting continent…
All those poor kids risking their lives to earn a living, people in india living on dumps, kids in south east asia mining for precious metals with no human rights or workers rights — shame on all of you for crying over spilt milk…”mummy they checked my bags and as a human being i demand respect and get paid for them checking my bags even though i am not working.” — if it bothers you so much, go get a real job not some cosy retail job…darn babies!!!
I think its an issue with the larger stores with longer wait times, waiting on supervisors to actually start the bag checks. If it actually takes 15 minutes to get to the last bag then its a problem. That can amount to as much as 5 hours of unpaid time in a month. It adds up. It not greed, my time is worth money. If someone gets hurt, and your not on the clock, Apple won’t pay work mans comp.
If its so cheap per minute, do you agree apple should pay them for the time they waste being searched? So because they treat their workers like crap in China they can treat us like crap here to? Sure are a lot of people who have never had to work for anyone in this forum.
Maybe the argument should be if the time spent waiting for your examination is done by a PAID employee then the waiting to leave person should be paid. Paid to Look equals Paid to be examined.
I’ve never had to submit to a bag check at any employers I’ve ever had. I’m quite surprised that they are even legal at all. There is no chance I would ever let an employer disrespect me like that. Who are these sheep that are willing to work for a company that does?
As an ex apple store employee, were bag check a pain? yes, even more when the on-duty manager was handling a customer escalation and I just wanted to get outside during my 15 min break…. but overall, you were rarely waiting more than 1-2 mins. Were they done in front of customer? at my store, we were doing it in the back of the front of house away from customer as much as possible.
During my time (5 years ago), we had “technology card” on which the model and serial number of our devices were noted on. During bag check, the managers needed to make sure that the serial number of our iPhone matched the one on the card as well as looking into our bags/patting down coats. We had to go through the bag check as soon as we had went in the back store. It’s also worth noting that managers were not exempted from bag check.
That being said, I don’t believe that Tim Cook wasn’t aware of those security check….
I always responded to this argument with “positive intent” this, and “credo” that.. But i never thought it was a big enough deal than to mention the irony.
I would be very surprised if it took 10-15 minutes to do a bag check. I would bag check a much much larger retail store of employees and would often do it while they are waiting to CLOCK OUT – not waiting to get their bag checked.
And my company would request that you fill out a timesheet if the bag check takes longer than 1 minute (which if it does, you’re doing it wrong unless you find something)
I’m surprised the lawsuit failed actually.
Employee theft is a problem in any business that entails Physical Merchandise. Computer products, like jewelry or gems, concentrate the monetary value of such merchandise. Employees knowing they will be checked is a deterrent in its self. History tells us of the blatant theft of Indian Motorcycle parts and such from the original Springfield Company. The same for the old Triumph Corp. in Maryland. I liked the post that suggested that ” taking less of your personal property in with you, would speed things up leaving when the shift is over.” These young people whine too much … However, if they have to stand around for 30 minutes waiting to get their honestly earned wages, that time should be paid. It’s a callous attitude toward the individual. But then, I’ve always considered Stupidity in Management to be the norm. Intelligent management is a rarity. That indifferent stupidity is what caused the inception of Trade Unions, whether you like them or not.
The Ole Curmudgeon