Apple and BMW have engaged in negotiations over Apple’s interest in using BMW’s i3 electric cars as a basis for its own electric car project, according to a new report from German publication…
News of Apple’s work on building an electric vehicle was first reported early this year with hundreds of employees reportedly working on the project after an approval from Tim Cook a year earlier. We later revealed some of Apple’s key team members and new hires from the automotive industry currently working on the project.
According to the new report from Manager Magazin’s July issue, Apple CEO Tim Cook along with other Apple executives recently met with BMW in Leipzig, Germany to visit the carmaker’s i3 production line. Apple is allegedly interested in the carbon fiber body of the i3, according to the report.
The i3 is a generally well-received electric car that gets about 80 miles on a charge and has an optional petrol-based range extender which can add a few gallons worth of range to the vehicle for longer trips. But it is by no means a game changer like Tesla’s Model S which goes from 0-60 in as little as 2.8 seconds, has a range of up to 300 miles and seats up to 7 people. Tesla also has a global network of Superchargers that can recharge their cars in as little as 20 minutes for free.
Apple would have to do some serious legwork to make the i3 into a game-changing disruption it has traditionally been knownto incorperate as it enters markets.
The auto industry is one of but a few would be meaningful to Apple’s scale. Electric vehicles and “Autopilot” have been taking off in recent years and companies like Google, Tesla and others hope to disrupt the current status quo.
The report adds that Apple has been in negotiations with BMW since autumn 2014 but hasn’t yet come to an agreement.
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Yes, because the market is ripe for $100k cars that can travel 30 whole miles on a single charge.
Yes, I know $100k is an exaggeration and the article states 80 miles per charge, but of the three people I know that own one, no one gets close to that.
Have you ever heard of Tesla Model S?
Model s is $52,500 with incentives and i3 base prices is $42,400
The Model S starts at $70k before incentives. The i3 is eligible for the exact same incentives. To list the after-incentives price for one and before-incentives price for another when they are eligible for the same incentives is a bit disingenuous IMHO.
i think ~$45k is the perfect price to make a game changing electric car, while still appealing to the average-upper middle class.
They can’t make a $30k car and have it be much different from your average Honda on the road today, just like they can’t make a $100k car and have the masses actually buy it – like they have all their other new-market products. Making top notch products that the average consumer can afford has always been Apple’s aim.
It makes perfect sense that they are (presumably) looking at an upper tier consumer car as the Car’s basis.
I actually own one, the REx version. Depending on how much I use A/C or heater, I get about 70 miles per charge. That’s pretty typical for the REx. The BEV version gets around 75.
Agree, got a BEV and getting 80-90 miles per charge, averaging 4.5 mi/kWh.
Really strange to hear someone actually knowing not one, but three i3 owners, especially 3 that do not get anywhere close to 80 miles per charge.
Even stranger to see someone using post-fed/state-gas savings Tesla numbers to compare to pre-everything i3 numbers.
Using that criteria, I can say after fed/CA incentives and 10 years of gas savings, my i3 was actually completely free. LOL!
Yes Tesla Model S give you 270 miles range. That’s what I call a true electric car!
Apple, please, not this from BMW. Their electric cars are c*ap just like any other electric cars except Tesla Motors’ cars.
Agreed!
Body not engine and batteries from BMW To reach the 2020 target date Apple will have to source major parts for the car.
@Miroslav
Clearly you’ve never heard of the i8, one of the most highly regarded vehicles on the planet.
Yeah, at about $135K. Only affordable for millionaires.
Price point? He compared Tesla to “any other electric cars”. That includes the i8 and the 918 Spyder for that matter, which are two of the most technologically advanced vehicles ever made.
Yes, I have heard of it and it’s a c*ap. Why would you want a car like that? I didn’t like electric cars just because they are just like i8 and others and then I saw Tesla Model S. That car is what a car and an electric car is supposed to be! Huge range (not just a few miles), great speed, so much space, etc.
BMW should stick for petrol cars since they’re not capable to make a great electric car at the moment however they’ll be forced to in a few years otherwise they can close the shop.
RAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAight. i8 is crap. 918 Spyder is crap. Forget the fact that both cars are universally praised as two of the most revolutionary and transformative machines ever created by mankind. EVER.
The great Miroslav scoffs are these utter piece of shite. Why? Because, well … he just does. He needs not give any logical reasons because … Miroslav knows. Doubtful he’s ever sniffed either car (let alone seen or driven), but what does THAT matter? Miroslav just knows.
” … just like i8 and others …” — WHAT are these “others” you speak of? Name a single “other” car that even remotely resembles the i8’s technology.
“… BMW … not capable to make a great electric car”. — Again, I say to you: clearly, you’ve never heard of the i8. Your follow-up response has not only confirmed that, but also of your utter ignorance of BMW’s undeniable achievement. I’m gonna guess they won’t be losing any sleep over it though.
I saw it in Top Gear. That car is not what an electric car should be. Are you German? That should answer everything.
Let’s make a family trip. Oh wait, there’s only space for 2 people not sitting that much comfortably as in Tesla Model S. Oh, our trip can be only 37 kilometres long before charging it. Oh, there are no BMW chargers for free that will charge your vehicle to 80% in less than 30 minutes (after driving 270 miles FOR FREE in Model S you actually (= 430 kilometres = almost 12 times more than your “great” i8) need to take a rest of 30 minutes (at least) anyway). Oh, I want to pack some stuff. What? There’s just a little space in i8? It all concludes what crap it is and I’m ashamed BMW did this. Tesla Model S is the best electric car out there that actually IS a car.
Here you go. This crappy i8 is (and it’s not even a family car = what people actually care about, not just a care to take out once a year) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2u8xLJARW4
I drove an i3 for two months, then returned it and got a Mercedes B class electric. The Merc uses Tesla drivetrain, drives like a dream, and has long range. The i3 has really high center of gravity, has thin “bicycle” tires, so it drives really awful. Further, the range is really short. Room for baggage as well as back seat passengers is small in it as well. The Merc is based on the regular B class, has almost the same baggage capacity, and handles exactly as the petrol version. the Beemer is right out shait, its probably the worst car I have ever driven! If Apple builds their car on an i3, I will not get one. Even if you guild a turd, its still a turd.
The report says Apple is interested in the carbon fiber body. There is a whole bunch of other factors that contribute to drivability, etc. Furthermore, we don’t really know what is meant by “body”, but there is not much innovation to be added to carbon fiber fabrication, so why spend a bunch of money and time re-inventing the wheel?
Use what is existing that you don’t need to invent, and add what you CAN innovate. That saves time, money, and quality since you don’t need to go through the experience and growing pains of fabricating parts/systems that you have nothing to add to (and no experience making).
The Tesla Roadster was based on a Lotus body. The Model S is based on Mercedes parts. Both of those cars are game-changers as a result of what Tesla could add to them.
Give Apple the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves unworthy of same.
This might help you figure out what is meant by “body” – http://lmgtfy.com/?q=car+body
What range do you get with the MB? MB’s site says 87 miles which to me is not enough. One can’t drive from SF to LA in an electric car.
I’m considering a Hybrid that gets around 45 mpg. The Honda Accord Hybrid and Toyota Camry Hybrid are so far, my two choices. I would love to get a MB, but the B class is just a little too expensive for me, and the range isn’t enough. Plus, I want a traditional sedan, not a hatchback.
this sounds like it’s going to be expensive
I3 starts at $42,400 and Base Tesla after incentives is 52,500.
^ That’s incorrect. Model S starts at $70k.
It’s the listed price after incentives on Tesla’s site. So a tesla is wrong?
Tesla’s website clearly lists the cash price as $70k. To use post-incentive price for one but pre-incentive price for another is misleading, especially because they are eligible for the same incentives. Furthermore, Tesla’s $52,500 also includes $10,000 of “fuel savings”. Federal incentives is $7500. Certain states also gives additional incentives.
I listed one was base and the other incentive and listed the incentive price since some were suggesting the car would be over $100k
Incentives only count if you are eligible. Some people aren’t, like everyone outside the US.
No point of mentioning base price either if you want to consider international prices or true cost of ownership. Tax rates, insurance rates and prices vary greatly on car models internationally.
This is coming from someone that considered a Tesla before going with the i3 last year.
–Tesla base was $70k, after Fed/CA incentive of $10k but adding CA sales tax of $5.7k, was looking at $65.7k. No room for haggling as the price was firm.
–i3 base with a few minor upgrades was $43k, after Fed/CA incentive of $10k, and dealer discount of $6k, but adding CA sales tax of $3k, the price was $30k.
Initially on track to pay $500 extra per year for my electric bill for 13k miles of driving per year. With solar and time-of-use pricing structure, that is now zero.
True cost of ownership of electrical vehicle I think is hard to nail down. Electric costs vary so much across the country, depends if you have solar polar access, get state and federal rebates and how far you drive a year.
Sure the insurance is dramatically different between the Telsa and i3 too.
“To use post-incentive price for one but pre-incentive price for another is misleading”
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
In plain math:
Tesla Model S [starts at] $70,000 cash. BMW i3 [starts at] $42,400 cash.
Tesla Model S [starts at] $52,500 after Federal Tax Credit AND and estimated -$10k in gas savings over 5 years (Really $62.5k at the end of the year). BMW i3 [starts at] $24,000 after same credit and gas savings over 5 years (Really $34.9k at the end of the year.)
Using that second price logic, the Model S is FREE after 35 years of gas savings…
Obviously the “-$10k in gas savings over 5 years” is just a marketing ploy to get you to compare that price to the real price of others, so the only applicable discounts here are the -$7.5k Federal Tax Credit and various state credits pertaining to electric cars available in CA, CO, LA, MA, MD, PA, TN, UT.
All before tax of course XD
For my second i3, after tax incentives, a BMW coupon and some dealer negotiation, my net cost for a two year “owners choice” lease is $1,500 or $63/month if you calculate it over 24 months. This is with an MSRP of $50,350.
$1,500 covers about 1 month of payment on a 72 month loan, for a nicely optioned Tesla Model S that people talk about all the time. The base car is pretty plain and has nice performance, but not amazing.
Over 24 months, a Model S would cost over $30,000, where my i3 costs about $1,500.
The more i hear about a supposed Apple car, the more I think it’s best to scrap this project. It has hurt written all over it.
Focus on content delivery, banking, small gadgets, even satellites and space technology, but not heavy industry.
Really? Because the news that they could outsource the heavy lifting (e.i. the body of the car) to companies like BMW that produce high quality, thoroughly tested, parts in large quantities makes me trust even more that this project is set on exactly the right course.
“The more I hear about …”
/o/z.
As much as you think you know about Apple’s intentions, you don’t know jack shit (nor do I for that matter). You think what you get spoon-fed from rumor blogs qualifies you to fomulate any semblance of a credible opinion on the matter (which, lest you forget, is nothing more than mere rumor and speculation itself)? Don’t delude yourself and stick to your day job, homeslice.
l’m continually amazed by how many people truly believe they can even begin to fathom what it takes to run a highly successful near-trillion dollar corporation—the largest in the known history of mankind—let alone critique it based on on half-baked rumors. Smh.
Why does the range of the i3 matter? Apple is interested in the carbin fiber body not the power train or batteries.
Apple will probably look to Tesla or someone else for the engines and batteries.
Apple will have to source its parts from other companies and use companies to build parts to their specs and build on any new technology Apple comes up with.
The i3 body looks like crap, has high center of gravity, it rolls in bends and turns, its design is utter crap, the front looks like a pig. The suicide doors in the back are
They are looking at the plastic reinforced carbon fiber not the body shape. I think earlier on they were thinking of a co branded i3 though. Now it’s the material Apple is interested in.
I agree with your thoughts on the i3’s looks, the upcoming Chevy Bolt looks a lot alike and hope Apple doesn’t go with the hatchback look. I hope they go more for a curvy small crossover.
Why did I have to come this far down to read this? How is it not clear that what you stated is Apple’s game plan? It’s their method of operating.
So they’ll look to someone else for frame, drivetrain and engine. Surely they want to design the body and interior right? I know there will be a lot of grey area on who designs what, but on the human interface side, you would think Apple will want to have as much control as possible right?
I’ve just trying to narrowdown my thoughts on which areas Apple is trying to reinvent and control with the design. Batteries, tech, computers, OSs, interfaces, body, and interior. It makes sense to me the the greater design of frame, engine and drivetrain would be borrowed from someone else, or customized versions with efficiency tweaks.
The carbon fiber BMW uses is produced in Washington and uses hydroelectric power to produce the carbon fiber. I’m sure Apple would make a plant nearby to stamp the parts instead of doing it in Germany.
I wish Apple would partner with BMW and make an electric MINI Cooper.
agreed about the MINI Cooper!
Yeah, everyone is overreacting on this. They’re interested in either the body materials, body manufacturing process, or both. This doesn’t mean its going to be a rebranded i3. Plus, we’re 5 years out- so there’s plenty of time to improve batteries for this project.
The premium interiors and other design features of the upcoming Mini Clubman would go well with Apple’s philosophies and design.
My guess is Tesla will make the batteries. I just don’t know if Apple will partner with an automaker for sales or use the Telsa sales model. I personally think BMW/Mini would be one of the best partners. Unless they want to go high profit and high show room like Porche.
The MINI interiors are way too fussy to be likened by Apple. I imagine a much cleaner interface, and believe it’s this user experience that will set the Apple Car apart from the rest. The body and engine could be built by anyone, just like the iPhone body and chip.
This car would have to blow away Tesla’s line-up for it to be remotely interesting (for me that is). And a Model S is already pretty amazing.
What if it was a lot less expensive and had smart technology throughout? I don’t think Tesla’s high-end “It’s like a really nice car but it’s electric” market is what Apple is after here.
I have owned an i3 for over a year. 18+ k miles. I worked 4 years at NeXT in the operating system group. Did their very first telephony product (about 20+ years before iPhone). This is the first car I’ve programmed :-) – coding this car to make it a bit more PHEV than BEVx and extending the gas tank (also in software) to 2.4 gallons makes this a whole new car.
I’ve driven it 2500 miles from Virginia to New Orleans with 900 electric miles. It is more a piece of networked transportation than a car. It is 400 pounds lighter than a Prius and 2000 pounds lighter than a Tesla and an absolute blast to drive. Yeah – looks wise it is quirky – but 3D printing a Ivy designed body is “mere matter of software”
The Range Extender could use a bit of a boost as well – Toyota’s free-piston range extender is a pretty neat innovation. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/04/20140422-fpeg.html
I’ve owned an i3 for almost a year and it really is an awesome car. I wanted to get a Tesla but the price tag is a bit high and the car is too big for my needs. I previously had a BMW Z4 and I have to tell you the i3 is the fastest EV under the tesla. It is really nimble and easily gets around traffic, accelerates past it and parks easily. Yes the Tesla can blow away most cars in a straight line but until the smaller more, affordable model model 3 is out it won’t compete for mass market appeal. I did not even consider a Mercedez B because it looks like a van and doesnt stand out. The i3 is a very very affordable car after incentives. Most people pick up their lease for around $300/month. Tesla is easily over a grand a month. Some people spend that much for gas in california alone.
How would your car do in snow? Would cold weather lower the battery charge like a conventional lead acid?
Apple is not making a car.
All of this seems like a moot point unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology on the horizon. I always thought the Apple Tesla meetings were more along those lines than an acquisition.
Terrible idea. Sell APPL buy TSLA
Ugliest. Car. Ever.
I lease an i3. To get the basest of the so called game changing tesla, i’d have to fork over an extra $500 a month for my 15K miles a year allotment. To get the fastest tesla, that’s an extra $1250 a month to lease. I test drove the high end Tesla with insane mode or what have you. Really fun to drive that 0-60 in the tesla but the 0-30 on the i3 is faster than any gas powered BMW currently makes. Not bad. The lease special back in April of $200 a month for a $48,000 car in my opinion is game changing :)
Never buy 1st gen from the big A
I think that car’s exterior is really ugly.
I like the fact apple is just interested in the Frame/Chasis part. Considering it is one of the most advanced frame, and the lightest around while preserving a very high security index.
Add Tesla batteries from the year 2020 (whichever they have available by then), a proper set of components and we might be leading to that 500 miles electric car we all want.
Wow.. This could be the biggest mistake Apple has ever made.
If they’re only interested in the carbon fiber body, maybe that’s something.. But to use an i3 as the basis for a car? Even the Chevy Volt does better. Granted it has less range on the battery but it has a bigger tank for fuel and an engine/generator capability that can run the car with nothing in the battery. The i3 has a gas tank that is LESS THAN TWO GALLONS! There is no Supercharger network to keep you going like Tesla has, no network of Nissan dealers set up for charging like the Leaf has, no 280 mile all-electric range like the Tesla Model S has, and certainly no 380+ mile range (battery + gas) that the Volt has!
It’s got every single disadvantage that ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car fans love to complain about except a decent 0-60 time.
That’s my car! I’ve been an owner of the i3 for about four months, and in terms of car technology, it really does feel like the iPhone of the car world. It’s silent, doesn’t vibrate, stall or have any moving parts (the engine is basically a spinning magnet). It’s also made of carbon fibre and if charged by Solar Panels runs on sunlight. Sure, it doesn’t have the range of a Tesla, nor the sheer speed (it’s 0-60 time is around 7 seconds, but 0-30 is around 2 seconds which is enough to beat nearly any internal combustion car off the lights). But it’s the interior where this thing really shines, with masses of space, interesting materials (like plant materials and wood around the dash) and attention to detail that you don’t see in any other car; plus the carbon fibre body really does make an impact in weight – my five year old can push the car along a flat surface. Oh, and it works with my Apple Watch so I can mess with the car settings and see it in Apple Maps. The car also texts me when it needs a charge.
Improvements? The exterior design could be refined. In person I love its looks but in photos it’s a squat-looking thing. Obviously the range could be improved, as could rear access to the back seats.