Is Apple building its own GPUs? Maaaaybe.

Thu, 07/02/2009 - 2:53am — Seth Weintraub
7479

Here's just a random thought.  What if the Apple bailing on NVIDIA rumors mean that Apple is building their own GPUs?  Yes, it is a stretch but let's have a look at a bunch of convenient truths:

New Hires. Apple has been hiring AMD/ATI CTO-level execs over the past year. Bob Drebin and Raja Koduri are the most notable. 

Bob Drebin was the chief technology officer of the Graphics Products Group within AMD. In this role, he oversaw the technical strategy and direction for AMD's graphics related businesses.

Mr. Drebin joined AMD with the ATI acquisition in 2006. At ATI, Mr. Drebin led the architecture and design of many of ATI award-winning graphics processors. Before ATI, Mr. Drebin managed the architecture and design unit of ArtX, where he was instrumental in development of the graphics component for the Nintendo Game Cube. Prior to joining ArtX, Mr. Drebin was a chief engineer in Silicon Graphics' Advanced Graphics Division, where he spent nine years developing high performance graphics systems.

Their new boss?  Mark Papermaster, a guy with chip knowledge so important to IBM that they sued Apple to prevent him from joining.

PA Semi.  The official word on this group acquired by Apple is that they are building next gen iPhone processors...and they probably are.  But their expertise could also be used in building graphics processors. 

There is always the PowerVR angle to think about as well.  Apple owns about 10% of the mobile GPU designer (and Intel owns 15%) so it will be interesting to see where all of these puzzle pieces fit.

OpenCL.  Apple is spearheading the move to this GPU-as-processor architecture.  As a founding member of the Khronos group, Apple will be in a position to run with this technology when Snow Leopard hits the streets in September.

While initially developing OpenCL, it became clear to Apple that the technology offered an opportunity for the industry to work together to define a standard for parallel programming. With the support of AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA, Apple proposed OpenCL to the Khronos Group consortium as the basis for a new standard. Demonstrating the strength of the proposal, OpenCL was expanded to include digital signal processors (DSPs) and other specialized processor architectures. It was ratified as an open, royalty-free open standard in December 2008.

Stranger things have happened.

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Comments

Apple always said: "Those who

2824

Apple always said: "Those who are serious about software, make their own hardware"

Finally!

2325

I've been wondering since Charlie's SemiAccurate article when someone was going to put this together. Doesn't mean it's real, or really going to happen, but there are a whole lot of pieces to this puzzle that seem to fit.

If they really want to differentiate their products, Mac & handheld, what better way than standards-based GPUs that blow the doors off of everyone else's and can't be bought off of the shelf by the other vendors. It's non-proprietary since it's standards-based, so they aren't trapped by the 'proprietary' label. But, the only way anyone can compete is to do something similar, which has serious cost, time, and talent constraints.

Toshiba rendering engine

2021

Toshiba pull out laptops with a special CELL processor to render HD video. The CELL as you know, is based in the PowerPC core, the same core that PA Semi had license to IBM to build the PA Semi Processors.
So, If the PowerPC has already prove that they can do graphics like a typical GPU, what can stop Apple from sue the PowerPC core as a graphics engine? Imagine a chip specialized in Core Animation running OpenCL and Grand Central at the same time (a multicore PowerPC CPU).
Now, not only clones will be left behind, but increased performance will have no match in the PC world. Reduce that to 32nm process and you have our iPhone's SOC.

Cell not a graphics engine

2420

Power pc has not proven that it can handle graphics. The cell is an offshoot that basically has little cores assisting the main power pc cpu. This hardly makes it an efficient GPU. You look at the massive parallel processing that both AMD and Nvidia's chips can handle(for rendering purposes) and it blows CPU's out of the water. They are designed for different functions. Its why Nvidia is using CUDA to leverage the GPU for tasks like video conversions, this is something that the design of the GPU excels at. I hope Apple would come up with something far better than just a power pc core.
Plus, I think this is bunk because half of the battle with GPU's is the drivers. Massive teams at both AMD and Nvidia are dedicated to optimizing perfermance in each individual game(such as crysis) to get maximum perfermance out of the cards. I just can't see Apple catering to a demographic that they have a tendancy to ignore, unless the are looking at GPU's not for gaming but for general system perforance with Snow Leopard.

Didn't Apple try this years

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Didn't Apple try this years and years ago with the Pegasus CPU project or something?

Toshiba used the Cell in the

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Toshiba used the Cell in the SpursEngine, which is a co-processor, not a GPU (the laptops they launched it on even came with a discrete 9600M GT). There's a big difference. In this case, the SpursEngine operates alongside the GPU and the CPU to handle specific graphics-related tasks, but it is not a general purpose graphics processor. It handles things like upscaling videos or transcoding, but just as CPUs make poor GPU stand-ins, so too would one of these co-processors. Toshiba also admits that the technology will chew your battery up and spit it back out (my words, not theirs, of course, but what else can you call 40 minutes of battery life? Citation: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/17/toshiba_rebrands_spursengibe/), and since Apple has been all about performance-per-watt in recent years, I seriously doubt they would turn to Cell. The Power line, and from that the Cell line, have never been designed with energy efficiency in mind.

Papermaster worked on Power architecture most recently. I think he was hired more because of his experience and capability, and not because of any inside knowledge (plus, IANAL, but I'd imagine IBM would have a real good case for appeal in the recent court proceedings if it turned out he used inside knowledge from IBM). You're not going to have a VP laying down paths for logic flow of these new circuits on a daily basis, after all.

It seems odd that they would push through OpenCL, a new standard for processing on GPUs, and get it adopted by Intel, ATI, and nVidia, only to turn its back on all three and develop its own hardware. I can only think of two reasons to want those companies to adopt the technology: 1) because you'll be using their hardware and want the technology available; 2) because you want the adoption rate high so that your fledgling hardware will still have people developing software for it even if they aren't developing specifically for your hardware. While #2 is certainly possible, it seems like a rather roundabout way of doing things.

To me, there seem to be a few options here that do make sense, all things considered. There's the iPhone route, where we consider them developing either additional co-processors, which makes LOTS of sense, both in terms performance-per-watt (so long as you're not using the power-hungry Cell architecture) and raw computing capability. They might also be developing discrete GPUs for the iPhone or an iTablet, and while that probably makes sense in the long-term, right now, there doesn't seem to be a need for it since the iPhone hasn't converged on the laptop market enough for that to matter yet. They could also be developing co-processors for things like the AppleTV, or the other computers they have. I'm not sure of the likelihood of that route, so I won't comment.

A stretch??

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Yeah, I would say that's a streeeeeeeeetch.

Unless PA Semi is REALLY working on some cool stuff behind the scenes then I don't see Apple dumping Nvidia despite Nvidia's manufacturing problems. Perhaps Apple has some inside information on intel's larrabee roadmap and likes what they see.

and virtualization?

2020

Doesn't seem likely. Virtualization is one key to getting OS X adopted in the enterprise workplace. Does Apple really want to be in the business of writing proprietary graphics drivers for Windows and Linux in perpetuity? I doubt it, and you can bet your life that Microsoft won't do it. But yeah, stranger things have happened.