By now, Nest’s story is quite well known: founder Tony Fadell left Apple after co-inventing the original iPod, founding Nest to re-imagine neglected home devices with modern designs and features. Nest started with the Nest Learning Thermostat, which made HVAC programming and remote management easy — really for the first time — then released the Nest Protect smoke and carbon monoxide alarm, and after acquiring Dropcam, the Nest Cam home security camera. Now owned by Google, Nest has closely followed Apple’s strategy of refined iteration upon past designs, releasing the Nest Learning Thermostat 2nd Gen and Nest Protect 2nd Gen as modestly but meaningfully tweaked sequels to address rough edges and omissions.
Yesterday, the company announced and released the Nest Learning Thermostat 3rd Gen ($249), which looks familiar at first glance. Still shaped like a metal-clad circle, Nest’s latest Thermostat is a hint thinner than its predecessors, yet sports a larger, higher-resolution screen that can optionally be used as an analog or digital clock. As a satisfied user of the 2nd Gen Thermostat for my home’s downstairs heating system, I bought the 3rd Gen Thermostat to replace the old control panel I had upstairs. Here are my thoughts on Nest’s latest product…
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The Basics
All of Nest’s Learning Thermostats have the same basic concept: they’re palm-sized silver and black dials with stainless steel outer rings and glossy faces. A circular screen on the front activates automatically using a proximity sensor when you approach, typically with text atop a blue, red, black, or white background. To control the thermostat, you grasp and turn the silver portion to navigate circular on-screen menu options, pressing the dial inwards to select an option. Based on the way you use the thermostat, it learns how you’d like your house to be heated and cooled, and if you allow it to do so, will make automatic adjustments designed to save you money and power. From installation to daily use, each Learning Thermostat is designed to radically simplify processes that were complicated (and wasteful) on older devices.
In addition to using the built-in screen and dial, you can use Nest’s free app to monitor and control the Thermostat over Wi-Fi using your iOS device, creating programmed heating, cooling, and inactivity schedules for days of the week. If you have more than one Thermostat (or other Nest products), they can be linked together and their activities coordinated. A rechargeable battery inside each Nest keeps the unit running even in the event of a power failure, though you may not be able to reach it wirelessly if the power outage impacts your wireless network.
What’s Changed In The 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat?
Like Apple, Nest’s industrial design philosophy can be summed up as confident but forward-looking: “we got it right the first time, but we’ll make the next one better.” Nest’s 1st Gen and 2nd Gen Learning Thermostats were both 3.2″ wide, slimming from 1.6″ to 1.26″ thick, while Thermostat 3 thins down to 1.21″ and slightly increases in width to 3.3″. Nest notes that the new model’s steel ring comes closer to your wall, picking up more of the room’s ambient color in the process, though you’ll need to skip the included (and redesigned) instant wall mounting plate to do that.
The most obvious difference between Thermostats 2 and 3 is the new model’s larger, higher resolution screen. Nest has shifted from a 1.75″ 320×320 display to a 2.08″ 480×480 display, which it notes is now 229PPI — a treat if you’ve been jonesing for a thermostat with a Retina display. While the prior Thermostats weren’t offensively pixelated when viewed up close, the new screen is indeed both larger and clearer than before, such that you’ll really have to get close to see dots. This also gave Nest the ability to create bigger graphic elements and more white space between them, so the screen’s easier and more pleasant to read; you may also notice some nice little degree-bridging animations during heating and cooling. These aren’t the types of differences that will make most Thermostat 1 or 2 users jealous, but they’re welcome improvements at the same MSRP as before.
A related addition is what Nest calls “Farsight.” One of the original Learning Thermostat’s magic UI touches was its ability to activate its screen automatically when you get close, a proximity detector Nest calls a “near-field activity sensor.” By comparison, Farsight is designed to turn the screen on when you’re coming from a distance, showing you either the time or temperature from across the room. I was able to get the screen to activate reliably by walking directly in front of it at distances just exceeding 10 feet, and didn’t trigger it from off-angles, which suited my personal preferences just fine. That said, if you were hoping to wave at the Learning Thermostat from a bed and turn on the screen to check the time, don’t expect it to work.
Nest gives you the choice between two white text on black background clocks: a minimalist analog clock with two simple lines connected by a dot, and a digital clock with clear, readable numbers. There’s a very cool touch that you’ll notice when approaching the Learning Thermostat: the analog clock adds both hour markers and a small box for day of week and day of month, while the digital clock adds a full calendar date line. Both only show up when you’re around 3 feet away, a distance where the added markings are legible. Alternatively, if you prefer the temperature to be displayed with Farsight, the numbers are larger than they are for near-field interaction, against a colored background that reflects either heating or cooling.
I was personally concerned that the Farsight feature might create a problem when used in a dark bedroom. But between the mostly black screen, line-of-sight far-field proximity sensor and a failsafe measure — the ability to completely disable both Farsight and near-field automatic activation of the screen — there’s no reason for concern. If you want to add a nice wall clock to your room, the 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat can do that; if you just want a thermostat, it can do that, too. After several days of testing, my view is that your perception of this feature will depend as much on your thermostat’s room and mounting location as on your desire to be reminded of the time every time you walk by it; after a couple of days in a bedroom, I turned the clock off because I didn’t need another timepiece, though I liked how it looked.
Installation
Every Learning Thermostat has been designed for easy installation without the need for a professional installer, and the 3rd generation model remains impressively simple to attach. Nest ships this model with two deep wall screws, four shallow electrical box screws, a comfortable flat head screwdriver, a wiring harness, an optional white plastic wall mounting plate, and an optional metal electrical box mounting plate. The wall screws and plastic plate enable you to remove your old, likely rectangular thermostat from the wall and instantly replace it with the Learning Thermostat without leaving visible holes or uneven paint. If you’d rather take the time to fix the wall with patches and paint, you can do so, enabling Nest’s steel to better reflect the room’s color; otherwise, the newly edge-tapered white mounting plate will occupy a 5.9″ by 4.3″ space around the silver dial. Below, you can see what my wall looked like before, during, and after installation.
Having now used first-, second-, and third-generation Learning Thermostats, I feel like the major improvements in installation took place in Thermostat 2, when Nest really cleaned up its circular wiring harness. As before, Thermostat 3’s harness includes an integrated bubble level so you can get the mounting orientation perfect; this time, it’s blue rather than yellow-green, and moved from the bottom to the top for easier visibility. But the design is otherwise the same, with buttons to open clips labeled for easy attachment of heating, cooling, fan, humidifier, and power wires.
As Nest’s web site predicted, the entire installation process took me around 30 minutes, much of which was spent trying to make sure electrical power was properly turned off to the old thermostat, and finding a super-small screwdriver to unhook four wires from the old thermostat’s connectors. Actually installing the 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat was as easy as leveling the wiring harness and marking two screw attachment points on the wall, using screws to attach the white mounting plate and wiring harness, then plugging the Learning Thermostat into the panel. Its integrated battery brought it to life before I restored power, and after specifying my Wi-Fi network and a several-minute firmware upgrade process, it was up and running.
It’s been long enough since I installed my 2nd Gen Learning Thermostat that I don’t remember all the specifics of the setup process, but I can tell you that choosing settings for the 3rd Gen model seemed every bit as easy — perhaps even more streamlined than before. The screens are easy to read, the interface completely straightforward to navigate, and pretty much everything worked exactly as expected. If anything, the included documentation doesn’t dive deep enough into potentially intriguing features such as integrated Bluetooth LE (seemingly for future setup without Wi-Fi), leaving you with more to discover about the Learning Thermostat over time.
There isn’t a lot to report on the Nest app, either. It supports the 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat, but doesn’t treat it particularly differently from the 2nd Gen model, as their core functionality is so similar. In initial testing, it worked exactly as expected to let me monitor and change the new thermostat’s settings, just as it has done with the 2nd Gen model I’ve been using for some time. The only major complaint I (and others I know) have had about the app has been the fairly significant UI updating it has undergone over time, moving menus around and sometimes making previously easy-to-find options less so. But for the time being, it’s in good shape, and adding the new Thermostat to my existing account took less than a minute.
Should You Get One?
If you’re looking for a new thermostat, the Nest 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat is easy to recommend in every way except one: price. The second-generation model has been discounted by $50 to clear inventory, so if you’re looking for something with 90% of the same functionality for 80% of the price, it’s a good buy for $199. That said, I personally took delivery of a second-gen Thermostat (at its prior $249 full price) right before my third-gen model arrived, and didn’t think twice about sending it back and keeping the newer, better model instead. You can choose the version that’s best for your needs and budget, but if you want Nest’s latest and greatest hardware (or appreciate the improved display and Farsight clock features), the 3rd Gen Learning Thermostat is the right way to go.
| Manufacturer: Nest |
Price: $249 |
Compatibility: iPad, iPhone, iPod touch |
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What’s the Bluetooth LE for?
Control with your smartphone without WiFi maybe? Control of other Bluetooth LE peripherals?
Maybe another way to connect to router (The Google OnHub has BLE too and Google owns Nest, probably they want to do something with that), and/or compactibility with Project Weave (as it’s written on Google Developers Project Brillo page) ;)
Bluetooth Low Energy. It’s the new bluetooth that is hopefully going to be part of a mesh (or in this case weave/thread) of the future.
This is great timing for me, but I’m also looking at the ecobee3. The #1 reason I would choose them is Siri support. I doubt it now since Nest is with Google, but any chance of HomeKit support for the Nest?
I am guessing no. It baffles me that neither Nest website nor this 9to5Mac review mentions lack of HomeKit support.
No HomeKit support. Also, based on what we’ve seen from readers thus far, almost no one cares about HomeKit support. Maybe the event next week will change that.
This article should mention it, but I would never expect the Nest product page to list the features it doesn’t have.
The Siri commands are kind of a pain (see Steve Jenkins’ review here: http://www.stevejenkins.com/blog/2015/07/review-ecobee3-homekit-enabled-thermostat/) but overall I’ve been happy with the purchase. Installation process will be about the same for either one.
I like that the ecobee came with an extra remote sensor for the same price as the Nest but don’t know how well all the HomeKit stuff will actually integrate yet.
Never fails! I just bought the 2nd generation for full price a couple weeks ago!
Don’t you guys have a 30-day return option? If not, if you always wait for the latest, you’ll just keep on waiting and never buying.
It’s great that they improved the Nest without raising the price. However, the new features are not enough for me to upgrade from my 1st generation Nests. What I would like is the ability to have at least one remote sensor that would determine the temperature readings. Thermostat locations are not always ideal, and it would to too difficult to rewire to place a thermostat at a better location. One might even want a mobile sensor that you can place in whatever room or area that you want to control the thermostat.
Great ideas — absolutely agree; however I find that my Nest is a lot more accurate than the thermostat it replaced. But yeah, I still keep digital thermometers throughout my house and there is usually a 5-10 degree difference depending on where the thermometers are located.
This is what made me switch from Nest to Ecobee. A friend of mine had Ecobee and loved it. Just got one on Black Friday sale that came with a two-pack of sensors free. So I got a thermostat with 3-sensors total for $249. Plus I like the UI better on the Ecobee. The Nest was annoying with the large wheel and push to click. It was “too simple” if you asked me. Also have the bonus of HomeKit compatibility though not sure how much I will use that.
Hm…intersting and cool. I don’t see why they can’t produce a firmware upgrade to allow the second gen one to act as a clock as well though…I have a 2nd gen one and I love it.
Far less tech than an iPod touch. Far higher price. $99 is reasonable; $249 is a total ripoff.
Take into consideration the R&D though — Apple has billions of dollars to work with, with engineers working on multiple projects, common code base, etc…they are in mass sales. Nest is a relatively small company with a niche product, yet they still produce great devices and have amazing support.
First, this is a mass market product. They’ve sold millions. Of Nests, and would sell more if it weren’t sold only to the wealthy.
The iPod Touch likely had much more R&D investment. Google and VC investors have plenty of deep pockets to overcome the investment hurdle -and it isn’t as if the manufacturing ramp up was done by Nest in the states.
Last time I checked 250$ is not much for the average person. Geez everyone is walking around with a 600-1000$ smartphone lol Just with the energy costs it saves you and reimbursement from some insurance companies it pays for itself. We have a Nest Gen 2 and it works great! save about 10-15% in energy costs every month.
Roger is clueless. First of all, no one puts up $600 to $1,000 to buy a smartphone. Now that carriers are getting rid of the subsidized contracts, they only have to pay sales tax to get an iPhone, and then a small amount per month to buy the phone over a two year period. Second, an over-hyped thermostat is not a smartphone. The Nest is an overpriced programmable thermostat that does nothing except turn on and off your HVAC system. You already know what a smartphone can do. There are many programmable thermostats on the market, long before Nest existed, that start at $20 and up. Guess what, you can save the same amount of money, or more, with a $20 programmable thermostat. Program the thermostat to only turn the HVAC system on when you are home, and off when you are not home. No one needs to access their thermostat over Wi-Fi to do that. Most people agree that $249 is a total ripoff for a thermostat. But Google/Nest will be happy to take a fool’s money.
Before Nest no one made a good programmable thermostat at any price. I have owned many, and only nest has controlled my system well. The assertion that a $20 thermostat works just fine is just stupid. That said, 1) R&D supports a gen 1 product for a gen 3 product it has NO bearing. 2) Nest is overpriced for what it does. I really expected a bit more from Gen 3 including remote sensors. After 4 years that would have been a good feature.
I do hope they have solved the WIFI heating the unit and throwing off the sensor issues. And I hope I can block downloads. Its not up to Nest when or if I update firmware. Its up to me. Many times my system stopped working because of a download.
I also hope the learning is a bit better as my Gen 1 never quite understood changes I make occasionally from changes I want all the time. So, lowering the temp on a really hot day was seen as a new setting going forward even if only occurred once. I have turned off my learning feature.
ecobee 3 is great. I installed mine a couple weeks back. It would be interesting to read a comparison of the Nest to that thermostat. HomeKit integration isn’t particularly important yet but as more stuff becomes HomeKit enabled it will be a more useful feature.
I wanted a smart thermostat, needed one that had some extra sensors to handle different temps in different areas, and wanted to go with something that was by a company that was embracing Apple’s home automation efforts.
I’ve been quite satisfied so far. The biggest issue I had was hooking it up to my ancient furnace (which I was eventually able to do and would have been just as big of an issue for the Nest) and getting the remote sensor to stay on the wall with the provided double sided tape.
Since then I’ve mostly ignored it (it’s a thermostat, how much do you really want to pay attention to it?) and been happy with its performance. Not to say that the Nest isn’t as good or better solution for some but I think this article paints a picture that ignores a very viable and for some Apple users, better, solution.
What I’d love to see at some point is some sort of “hub-and-satellite” model of the Nest for homes with electric baseboard heat. Millions of people where I live (Québec) have electric heat, because our electricity is cheap. But that means we have thermostats in every room. If I installed Nests to replace all our thermosts it would cost $1,750 and it would take about 20 years to break even with the energy cost savings. It would be great to have one smart hub thermostat that can control the individual rooms.
I pre-ordered our Nest when they were first announced and we love it. The only “burp” we ever encountered was after Comcast “upgraded” our cable modem – with the Comcast internal router – and the Nest would want to connect to that instead of our Apple AirPort Extreme. We chased that particular demon for awhile and when I realized it wasn’t the Nest but the Comcast modem / router, replacing their modem / router with a purchased modem (router-less), the problem disappeared and it saved me a $9.00 charge every month. The purchased modem has paid for itself – and the Nest continues to work flawlessly!
Maybe the next gen will have something worth upgrading to – but we’re still very happy and satisfied with our First Gen Nest. It just works and it’s so easy to program and control from our iOS devices.
Maybe its just me, but I have found the bases to be incredibly unreliable. We have a lot of zones, and I have installed Nests (2d) everywhere, including at relatives’ homes. I like the functionality and have found them to be terrific (tho I HATE the new app). We have had at least 4 faulty bases. Not working from the moment of installation. I have no idea how/why, but replacement bases (using the exact same installation method) have always fixed the issue. That said, Again, maybe I am doing something wrong. Nest Support has always been excellent, sending off replacements quickly. I hope the 3rd addresses any possible issues.
I agree that a firmware upgrade for 2d users should come, with the clock feature. And PLEASE fix that awful new APP. Slow, glitchy, etc. LOVED the first Dropcam app much more.
To be clear, I would HIGHLY recommend this thermostat.
I have a 2nd Generation NEST and I love it but have one recommendation. The NEST gets its 12 volts of power from the furnace not from the house power. I live in a mountainous climate and after one software update the NEST did not have enough voltage so had to be recharged. The temperature was particularly cold, -10 degrees F so this was not a good scenario. Customer support was great but they had me cannibalize the cooling wire to provide enough juice to keep it running.
The Venstar Add a Wire http://www.amazon.com/Venstar-Add-A-Wire-Wire-Adapter/dp/B0013LVDQA kit takes the 4 wires from your furnace to make 5 wires including the C-Wire at your thermostat location. It uses some splicing and rerouting that is pretty simple. There is a well done YouTube video which explain. Now I have heating and cooling.
The third generation features look nice but as the fine review said, would not warrant a switch out.
The main mechanism for saving energy is the away feature. No need to heat or cool a house if you’re not there. If you religiously lower the thermostat when you leave the house then this might not save you much but for many people it can make a difference.
IS THIS THING BURNING SOME AC SISTEMS LIKE SOME WEBSITE SAID? SOMEBODY HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS?