The battle between the FBI and Apple continues to be played out in the media. On the same day that Apple SVP Craig Federighi said that the FBI wanted to create a weakness that could be used by hackers and criminals, NYPD’s head of counter-terrorism weighed in during a radio interview. The Daily News quotes John Miller accusing Apple of providing aid to murderers, among other things.
I still don’t know what made [Apple] change their minds and decide to actually design a system that made them not able to aid the police. You are actually providing aid to the kidnappers, robbers and murderers.
He cited the same quote used by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance during the Congressional hearing to support this contention, that a criminal described iOS 8 as ‘a gift from God’ …
Law enforcement officials do, though, seem to have completely given up on the pretence that the San Bernardino case would ever be a one-off.
“Right now Cy Vance, the Manhattan district attorney, has 175 iPhones stacked up in his office that are subject to search warrants, issued by judges, involved in crimes,” Miller fumed.
With it looking increasingly likely that the issue will eventually be decided by Congress, those on both sides are well aware that it’s the court of public opinion which needs to be persuaded. So far, techies are on Apple’s side, but the wider public has so far come down on the FBI side.
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It’d be good to see a more recent set of statistics for the public opinion piece. Those figures came days after the issue escalated and before most of those tech companies sided with Apple both publicly or officially. Given this whole debate is so PR driven, I’m not sure if that initial report would even be relevant any more assuming it was reflective of the population to begin with.
Agreed. I find that the snap judgement by most people who don’t quite understand the tech side of the story is to side with the FBI. The more people hear the real story and what’s really at stake here, they tend to sway toward the FBI side. After explaining the issue I’ve helped a lot of my friends and family explain what’s really going on here. I find that still to this day 75% of what’s reported on the news is still completely inaccurate information even by the so-called “experts” in the field (I don’t know where they find these people sometimes).
Also, I find it funny that the government likes to point the finger and say Apple system is aiding kidnappers, robbers, and murders when so many of their policies do they exact, same, thing. Pot, meet kettle.
Yes, I hope we’ll get another large public poll soon.
The public will never hear the full story. The media won’t allow it. I have yet to see any report from mainstream media that conveys Apple’s position succinctly and/or accurately. The only exposure to the truth the general public is getting comes in the way of material published or written by Apple, such as the recent Op-Ed. But these things are going to be buried by the negative articles and hit-pieces on broadcast TV. The folks in law enforcement will continue to spew clueless remarks or outright lies, just like this muppet from the NYPD who I wouldn’t trust to investigate a missing sandwich from work-place fridge.
Just read Tim’s two open letters and what Craig said. With a company like Apple that is so careful in managing their messaging, what their execs say is what Apple is in fact saying.
Justice in most modern countries is designed to provide aid to kidnappers, robbers and murderers too. But that’s a good thing, remember ?
I’m sure a District Attorney is well aware of that.
Mr. Miller, for a stupid person you sure say dumb things.
And the FUD continues! Despite the fact that one of the victims in the San Bernadino shootings has publicly supported Apple’s stance for privacy.
How do some of these Law Enforcement Officers get so stupid – making idiotic statements like this?
Maybe it’s time to relocate from the USA to countries that have (a) smarter officials and (b) a more informed and involved public.
Well, don’t try moving to England, they aren’t any smarter here.
My plan is to buy a sailboat, and go off-grid where the water is warm and it doesn’t rain so much. You’re welcome to join me. LOL
Instead you’ll have to worry about pirates!
It was reported that 5 people related to the victims feel Apple isnt doing all that they can, and that regardless of whether there might or might not be vital info on the phone we wont truly know until we check.
The FBI, police etc all around the world do rely on cell phones to find missing people, to piece stories together, to find evidence vital to sending a person to prison — in canada they check you phone and laptops to make sure you are not bringing illegal content into the country BUT also to prevent people from committing a crime (usually working illegally or staying longer and abusing the system) but this has also prevented drug smuggling too.
So if Apple are preventing the law enforcers from accessing a device with potential evidence belonging to a known criminal – then Apple is aiding a criminal by protecting them…
Those in support of protecting their own privacy are also protecting the privacy of criminals — if you say otherwise, then you dont understand the system.
If privacy is so important then we might as well say let people murder, let people rape, let people shoot and blow things up — after all, thats their business and we shouldnt involve ourselves in their private affairs.
I don’t get what your issue is. The majority of the population are not murderers, rapists, and shooters. Are you saying EVERYONE in the US needs to give up their privacy for the sake that the government can have a slightly easier time tracking down less than 0.001% of the population?
you just need one to fly a plane into a building to kill hundreds…
you just need one to run into a school and shoot kids
you just need one… well…you get the picture…
But you know what — as long as that one person doesnt shoot or kill me or my family, then im ok with that…
But maybe you should look up the pedophile list in america, consider all the peeping toms, look at how many houses are broken into, how many phones are stolen, how many shootings happen, how much drugs are brought into the country and sold…
Then tell me only 0.001% need to be tracked…
So are you also implying that before smartphones, there were not murderers, rapists, and shooters? By golly, I wonder how the FBI ever caught a criminal back then.
Before smartphones these people werent using them – hence warrants to search cars, for police to stop and search you on the streets…
It is also why later we introduced security cameras etc…
Your so called privacy rights are violated constantly throughout the day… most security software has backdoors – how do you think you are able to gain access to your bank account online if you forget your password…or gain access to your emails etc.
For most people who access 3rd party apps, or sign up to things online – they are giving permission to share certain information about you…
Your home with all those windows, doors etc that contains all your personal belongings, the place where you sleep, that often has money and valuable, where people keep books with passwords cos they forget, or keep a computer that is easy to crack by the FBI has virtually little to no security and probably has most of the information thats on your phone…
The FBI just need access to check if there is any other information to aid their case…
regardless — phones have aided a lot of cases in providing necessary evidence about whereabouts, contacts, plans etc — all that relevant information will be lost.
Can’t believe all these safe companies providing adid to murders, criminals, rapist, terrorist. Who do they think they are?
You can’t be that thick I hope? They provide security and privacy to their consumers to enable life safety features like location sharing and 911, and they provide security for locking the data on your phone which contains passwords, SSNs, bank accounts, and CC links for ApplePay.
I guess you feel we should have no security or private freedoms because crimes happen. Maybe you should just give a key to your local law enforcement with a notarized statement they can walk into your house at any time without a warrant. lol
They’re not necessarily providing aid to murderers, etc. Business did not come to fruition to aid terrorists but to please consumers. If we did not want privacy/security protocols in our products in the first place, they wouldn’t exist now. @peteostro you should really look up the tech side to this as media will not explain the tech side because a) they do not fully understand what is at stake and b) they would report on this story in favor of the government since Big Brother rules them.
From my seat at the table, forcing companies to circumvent security in their products will render them pointless. Those products will still provide a useful purpose but in a compromised manner. The world is full of individuals, companies, governments that will exploit any weakness in tech products if there is sensitive data to be had and exploited. Consider this, if smart phones (for instance) can be completely hacked, how secure will you be with the info stored there — credit cards, health, financial, private communications? Will you still be willing to trust the safety of the information critical to your financial and personal life? Increasingly, so much of our personal, financial and medical information is being stored in this one place. For me personally, if the government prevails and forces companies to compromise the security of their products then I would revert back to the 1980’s — a dumb mobile phone–no “smart” devices, paper bills–no online payments, etc. In other words, I would lose trust in the systems that protects vital information important to me and my well being. If others think along these same lines, then think what this will do to our current economic structure. How many years/decades would this take off of our economic progress? What will this cost us in the long run — in dollars and civil liberties. These are just some of my early thoughts on the issue at hand. Hopefully smarter minds will discuss all the merits involved and come up with a reasoned solution, a solution not based my media hype or Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yea making the iPhone secure and unusable if stolen has certainly made criminals happy.
And it’s made politicians, professionals, banks, and ecommerce companies happy too.
It is not Apple’s responsibility to ensure phones purchased by criminals can be hackable. If a criminal purchases an iDevice and uses it, it is not Apple’s fault. Their main purpose is to SELL, not help the government (albeit they have to help to a certain extent). The main reason Apple devices are so secure is because the company does not gather as much personal information about you like other companies (but this is why Apple’s services are not so great, aka Siri and Proactive). If the government could hack into phones before, why not just do it now? ;)
Apple doesn’t work for the Feds or the NYPD. What started as 1 phone is now 175 right at the start. What the hell ever happened to investigating everything else or are we all going to pretend the phone is now the only single piece of evidence required?
Worse are the implications to the security and privacy of the American citizens. It’s irresponsible for a government agency to bypass civil liberties and protections placed in the constitution that are backed by law using fear tactics. This needs to go through congress and our law making processes, not using an outdated law passed 200 years before the technology was created.
It’s already far more then that number. 12 from the Justice Department so far, 175 from N.Y. Throw in everywhere else in the U.S. and I’m sure it’s in the thousands!!!
The next version of iOS will require a password prior to allowing firmware upgrade, which will essentially make all of the ‘we can force Apple” present discussion irrelevant. I am sure this change terrifies the FBI because they know it – and this war of words is intended to sway Congress to outlaw that change in the OS for Apple, and for all manufacturers. There has been many strong voices on the side of Apple. I am not so sure that the public is so much on the FBI side here – Amazon removed encryption on their tablets and then promptly returned it. That did not happen in a vacuum. In fact the biggest vacuum I see here is in the heads of guys like Miller and Vance who somehow think this issue will be decided by name calling.
Apple provides aid to them like a car manufacturer provides transport, a gun manufacturer provides weaponry, a grocery store provides food, etc. I hate stupid people, I mean that guy is a complete moron.
Ask some of these people in Government if they think it’s a good idea to completely ban the sale of all firearms and put in place a mandatory turn-in law to reclaim all firearms currently in the hands of private citizens.
If Apple is indeed helping criminals intentionaly why doesn’t this guy bring Apple to justice as accomplice? He doesn’t because he knows he has no case.
Isn’t he the same person that demanded that Apple create a system that prevented the device from being reused if it was stolen because of the amount of muggings taking place in NYC for Apple devices ? And thus that was how the ‘find my iphone’ feature was born. He is a hypocrite that seems to want it both ways.
Sorry…not so much the ”find my iphone” but rather activation lock in conjunction with ‘find my iphone’ and ‘icloud’.
Well I accuse this guy of giving aid and comfort to China, Iran, and any other country that will demand the same access Apple gave the US. If they lose this case, they have no moral high ground to say no to any government.
Never fails when the government is attacking civil liberties they’ll use the red herring argument of terrorism. I myself am not that concerned about terrorism. In all reality I’m not worried about terrorism, I’m much much more worried about cyber security, how many Americans a year are victims ideantity theft, malware, ransomware, etc, compare that to the amount of Americans that are killed by terrorism. Look at this article about identity theft from 2014 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/nearly-13-million-americans-victimized-id-thieves-2014-n316266, compared to this article about Americans killed by terrorism in 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/of-the-17891-deaths-from_b_5818082.html
Obviously there is a huge difference, what the FBI really cares about is setting a precedent so they can get into drug dealers phones and continue their ludircis “war on drugs”
I think this is another’ generational thing. Well, besides being a law enforcement’s wet dream.
As with Trump supporters that I know, the older, the less educated , the more support for government overeach .
Older people are far easier to scare and manipulate via news outlets such as Fox News.
Oh yet another fool scared of Fox News. So funny, all the hate to Fox news because you don’t agree with them even though they’re far more fair showing both sides. Yo’d rather one side just shut up! That’s what you get with the other crap.
No one is scared of Fox News, but they are the reason for creating the demographic that they helped coalesce of the senile and ignorant, and into a neat little package to be exploited by the likes of Trump.
Yet the kiddies seem to be easy to scare with non-existent threats.
The FBI isn’t interested in your phone, no one at the NSA is reading your SMS – they just aren’t interested.
Ordinary people need good security against phone thieves and hackers – they don’t need be to frightened of scary stories about FBI bogeymen coming to get them.
No Apple is not ‘providing aid to murderers’
Assisting offenders would be a criminal offence in many countries and even a corporation as rich and greedy as Apple is not entirely above the law.
What Apple is doing is obstructing law enforcement as a greedy marketing ploy.
What the FBI need to do is to ensure the PR is turned around – a few cases where Apple is obstructing child molestation cases would be better than terrorists and drug dealers.
Apple has done everything within their current capabilities to aid law enforcement. That is not obstruction.
All of your posts read like they’re written by some law enforcement PR hack.
“Apple has done everything within their current capabilities to aid law enforcement. That is not obstruction.”
You conveniently miss out the bit where Apple deliberately made the phones inaccessible.
You also miss out the bit where Apple has never said they physically cannot comply with the warrant – as they have said with some other warrants – they are refusing.
Your post reads like an apple fan boy who’s lost perspective.
You’re in the minority here. Normal people understand fine well that a mobile phone is not the end of the world and the privacy of a (dead) killer is not something that should be protected.
^Lol. A “John” “Smith” pouting about how privacy should be given up for law enforcement. Hi “John Smith,” I’m “John Doe”
Hey “John Smith” why isn’t your Facebook page open too all? and your date of birth and personal info out in the open, since you hate privacy and encryption why so private surely you have nothing to hide, cause only criminals require the bad bad encryption.
“You also miss out the bit where Apple has never said they physically cannot comply with the warrant – as they have said with some other warrants – they are refusing.”
No they aren’t. They’re saying they won’t deliberately make a tool to give to the US (and every other country out there who would immediately demand the same thing) to crack their own encryption. In those other cases they handed over iCloud backups just as they could have in this case if the FBI hadn’t told San Bernardino to change the password. If you’re going to comment on tech, learn the facts
So you’re saying that the government should be able to force a private company to write software for them, against their will? That’s ridiculous. I don’t even know where to begin…For one thing, if the government wants this software so bad, what’s preventing them from hiring their own developers and writing it themselves?
Amazing people think Phones are to blame for the deaths. No one is going after the gun industry…
Yep. I’ve been saying this the entire time. FBI is ineffective and antiquated and uses Apple and iOS as a scapegoat to mask their ineptitude.
They key difference between the gun manufacturers and Apple is that if one their products is involved in a crime then the gun corporation will do everything to assist the cops investigating it.
What if the gun company decided that it was too much of a breach of a murderers privacy to tell the cops who bought the gun ? They could burn the records to make sure they couldn’t comply with any court orders.
Or what if they deliberately redesigned the serial number so it could be easily removed without any sign being left – that would stop those pesky cops.
Or they could design special barrels that don’t leave ballistic evidence on bullets so that the cops couldn’t interfere with privacy of killers.
Ridiculous of course. No responsible gun company would put the privacy of killers ahead of a police murder investigation.
They don’t do those things because it adds nothing of value to the gun itself. Having our data safe from people who shouldn’t have it IS a selling point for ANY computing device. Apple COULD have (and have in the past with a proper warrant) easily given the FBI the backups of iCloud data which would give them pretty much anything on the phone IF the FBI hadn’t told San Bernardino to change the password. OOOPS! Almost as if they wanted to create this firestorm and set a precedent. Or do you think two nearly identical bills in NY and California (who’s sponsor claim they didn’t know about each other’s bills) to force tech companies to put in backdoors is “merely” a coincidence.
Guy goes to Walmart — guy buys shovel, and a tarp. Guy goes home, hits wife in the head with shovel, covers her up in a tarp with her clothes, etc., buries her. Is Walmart, or the shovel / tarp manufacturer responsible for this person’s actions? Are they aiding a murderer?
I hope Apple makes something that catshes the entire FBI mainframe.
Dear NYPD counter terrorism cheif. With older iphone OS in 2011 and all hacking tools into IOS you had, you still didn’t stop the worse terrorist 9/11 attack in your city !!
Damning material about 9-11 was on a laptop in the possession of the authorities.
The rules at the time put his privacy ahead of protecting the public – no one looked at it.
It’s an excellent example of what happens when you unquestioningly put the privacy rights of killers ahead of right to life of decent citizens.
You’re like the Brian Williams of maybe possible could be tech situations. Tell us why Pearl Harbor got bombed.
Yeah, and we know that the 9/11 hijackers were funded and had direct links inside the Saudi Arabian government.
Are we doing anything about it? Of course not! Even though we know exactly who was involved…It was on a VICE News story — the documents are classified, but the guy who had clearance to read them gave an interview and told what he was allowed to tell — most of the details — but not all, and no names, of course.
They also had a lot more credible evidence, readily available, from proven intelligence sources that 9/11 was coming — they didn’t act accordingly.
“Dear NYPD counter terrorism cheif. With older iphone OS in 2011 and all hacking tools into IOS you had, you still didn’t stop the worse terrorist 9/11 attack in your city !!”
iPhone: June 29, 2007
9-11 attacks on New York: September 11 2001
That’s sort of 10 years before the iPhone was released.
I despise terrorists and anyone else who weakens our country’s defenses, as well as those blaming others for not being able to do their own jobs. Allah’s mid-evil nut cases would not be here or threatening us today if elected types and agencies involved, hampered by political correctness and jurisdiction ego’s, had done their jobs in the first place.
When Federal agencies ask Federal Courts to demand private enterprise to compromise security features only to make their jobs easier that they’ve failed at, American freedoms may have already been defeated. I only disagree with Apple on one aspect of this situation threatening the revision of our Constitution. Congress should not determine the outcome, where decisions are guarantied to be politically motivated, nor the lower courts where conflicting rulings already exist on iPhone securities. The Supreme Court should rule, where Constitutional rights to privacy still mean something.
For hundreds of years many wars have been fought and lives lost to protect us from outside enemy nations and terrorist groups from compromising our Constitution and our way of life. Our own government agencies should not be allowed to accomplish this defeat where outside enemies failed, because it makes their jobs easier. Those within our governments at any level, like this guy, promoting further self destruction of personal freedoms should re-examine their understanding of what our country is based on.
I’d really like to know why so many public officials, who have sworn to uphold the Constitution, are hell-bent on dismantling it?
Old man yells at technology; insinuates law enforcement does not kidnap, rob, or murder
Cold war bomb shelters were only built to keep out the authorities, fast cars were built for bank robbers, and the internet was built for porn as well I suppose.
Child porn**, and bomb making terrorist kidnapper rapists. Head for the hills!
The privacy comes at a cost…
For those who have never been a victim of a crime, they can safely hide and say “it will never happen to me” and so they will want to push forward with their privacy — as long as they are happy it’s ok…
But as soon as their loved one is murdered, or kidnapped, or caught in a terrorist attack — i wonder if they will still say “thank god for Apples security that protects everyone’s privacy”
This protects not only the innocent, but also the guilty — is America really sure that they want to give such security, privacy, and power to such people???
If the Apple win, it will make a lot of people very happy — but for how long?
An iPhone is not marketed or even designed with a “drug dealing terrorist murderer kidnapper rapist” in mind — it’s not sold at the “drug dealing terrorist murderer kidnapper rapist” supply store. Just because “such people” can use it to assist them in such heinous acts is inconsequential. They could just as easily use something else. We NEED encryption and passcode locks on our phones…Our health data is on there. Our banking data is on there. The location data of our friends and family members might be on there!
To suggest that Apple be forced to write software that does not exist currently and would NEVER exist, against their will, by an order from the government, is tyranny. The government does not have the power to force private individuals to write software from them. If they want the software written so bad, they should hire their own developers and write it themselves.
That’s a stupid argument. If your mom was going to be killed by kidnappers unless Apple weakens the security of all iPhone devices so authorities can access any iPhone, then of course I don’t give a shit about your mom dying and wouldn’t give up my privacy. Likewise, if my mom was going to be killed unless everyone else gave of their security, of course I would want everyone to give up their privacy, but no one else gives a shit about my mom. You’re essentially asking “Do you love your family?” Yes we do, and it’s irrelevant to this matter.
As a teacher of over 1000 students… i would like to think my students are secure – and if someone was to come into my school and kill a bunch of them, i would like justice to be served…
Basically – my argument is – we care about each other…
Your argument is… let’s continue to build a selfish world whereby no-one bothers to look out for each other…
What kind of drugs was he on when he was phrasing this argument? Bath salts?
Even a juvenile can see this is nonsensical.
If you want to agree with him, then a man who buys a shovel at Walmart, and then uses that shovel to hit his wife over the head and then bury her in the back yard, is being aided in his murderous acts by Walmart, and the company who makes the shovel!
The baby boomer generation still out there to screw us in the ass. When will they all stop overstaying their welcome on this green earth? Old geezers with no grasp on technology should not be legislating, nor speaking out on these matters.