CBC News is reporting that Apple would not disclose Apple ID passwords to a widow after presenting her late husband’s death certificates and her will. Instead, Apple demanded Peggy Bush, 72, to attain a court order in order to gain access to the account. See the video after the jump for the full story.
Initially, Apple said that a death certificate would suffice but the company changed its mind on followup calls, making this situation even more frustrating for Bush. She just wanted to play her iPad freemium card game in peace. Law regarding digital assets after death is murky, although Bush points out that death certificates enabled her to transfer pensions and benefits, making it seem ridiculous that Apple would also not cooperate with the same information.
“I thought it was ridiculous. I could get the pensions, I could get benefits, I could get all kinds of things from the federal government and the other government. But from Apple, I couldn’t even get a silly password. It’s nonsense,” 72-year-old Peggy Bush told Go Public.
CBC contacted Apple directly, who have since sorted the specific problem with Bush’s case, but it would not elaborate on its company policies regarding iCloud and Apple ID ownership after death. This serves as a warning for others to sort out their digital assets ahead of time, perhaps by sharing important account passwords with trustworthy friends. Apple said that Bush’s situation was a “misunderstanding” but refused to comment further.
Many are asking for government oversight of digital-accounts-after-death situations, demanding laws be modernized to treat account data in the same as any other possession when someone passes away. Independent of the confusion associated with this particular case, Apple is clearly lagging behind in this area. Facebook and Google have made big leaps in accommodating deaths with their respective cloud services. For example, Google has a clear process for Google account recovery after death posted on its website. Apple has no such form. Users who find themselves needing iCloud and Apple ID ownership transfer should contact Apple Support for assistance.
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This story peeves me no end, because CBC that originally played the story complete with crotchety old woman bleating all she wanted was to play a game. Well the daughter, who was also involved and a driver of this going to the media could have just created a new profile and downloaded the game… but oh no, they state the husband NEVER WANTED TO SHARE THE PASSWORD in the first draught of the story. Then he dies, she says she should have it.
Imagine the story the other way around, wife demands password and he is alive. He says no. I fail to see the difference here, she wants to read his email etc, he wanted her out, for whatever reason. If she truly just wanted to play a game then why the endless bickering and bother? This part of the story, her reasoning MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
Apart from 5 mins of fame, over a non story, the old woman was asked to prove her claim, given what was released in the emdia I think it’s damn right she gets kept out of the husbands mail. Apple wants absolute proof, and given all of the above, how can you trust her?
Sadly though, why would you even cover such a ridiculous story? Digital media rights may be a good story, but this was one old woman and a daughter trying to spin a story about playing a game, when that was easy to fix – the truth was they wanted the email he wanted her kept out of.
Enough is enough. Even a death certificate is enough to transfer the benefits. So why can’t she get the password of an Apple ID? Maybe the iOS device is locked with the same Apple ID and because of this, she may not be able to use the device.
For the record, i didn’t like how CBC serve the story but this does not change the behavior of Apple.
Benefits are not the same thing as personal information protected by the account password. This family is not entitled to the deceased’s password, which Apple doesn’t have. If the decreased wanted them to have the information, he would have given them the password.
The only thing Apple can do, is transfer the purchases to their Apple ID account but no data can be transferred. That is the only data that is not protected by the password.
Wrong.
Apple is 1000% correct not to hand over such an account, as it is not Apple’s to hand over. The account is owned by the man, or lieu of his unavailability due to death, his estate. Was the woman in question the sanctioned executor of her husband’s estate? I don’t know. And clearly Apple didn’t know either. Apple did the right thing by protecting the account.
A death certificate just means that someone is dead. It does not decide how the dead man’s stuff is treated and who controls it. And control of a dead person’s estate doesn’t always just go to the spouse (A 2nd marriage with two families involved is often a reason why the spouse is not in 100% control)
Of the estate that I was an executor for, the fact that I held a death certificate gave me no particular or capabilities – even though I was the executor. I always had to show the original, stamped court order that made it clear that I was the executor. I’m not sure why this woman couldn’t do the same. Oh, and the spouse? The widow was decidedly NOT an executor of the estate. As executor, I’d have to sue Apple and the widow if the spouse illegally gained access to the departed’s account.
The husband apparently didn’t want her reading his mail and looking at her I would want her in mine. Since that is what he wanted, who are you to say otherwise? If she wanted the game, which is what she and the daughter said, it was real easy, wipe the device, get your own ID and download the game. But nope, they want his mail.
Reading someones mail is not the same as transferring pensions.
So two things: This is not about digital ownership of anything. and the woman is trying to get in to something the husband wanted her out. This is far too much effort for a free game, she is obviously not telling the entire story.
Ummm, have you considered that the information in the first draft (I’m assuming you were having a pint) about the husband in some way specifying he was unwilling, “NEVER WANTED”, to share the password was INCORRECT? Perhaps that was why the revision in the article? I mean, CORRECTIONS are a reason to revise. Just saying.
But otherwise you’re just being a shrill shill…”why would you even cover such a ridiculous story?” Because it is informative. Because it shows that Apple has a ‘UUUGE gaping hole in their digital products policy. It is said that there are only two certainties in life, Death and Taxes. Yet Apple seems to be completely ignorant of Death? It is absurd. It is even MORE absurd for a company who makes so much money off of digital content sales, the largest company in the world by market cap, and a company that prides itself on being both so progressive and responsive to its customers needs. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the demographics of the western world, but Death is an issue that more Apple customers are going to be dealing with. I’d rather know sooner than later that Apple has a dumb policy (I already knew it, but, whatever) since then more customers can reach out to Apple and provide Feedback to get it corrected.
You, on the other hand…you just sit there and do nothing. Apple is magic. UNICORNS!
For the record, it is my opinion that Apple should NOT necessarily be providing passwords. (And I’d bet that in this case the family didn’t GET a password, they got a password reset and gained access to the account.) Apple really should however be engineering their system to facilitate the transfer of digital goods. In THAT case, the Mrs. in the story above (sorry for her loss) should have created a new Apple App Store account/AppleID and Apple should have transfered the purchases (“property”) from Mr.’s account to Mrs.’ account. This problem extends past Death as well…there is another Big D in western civilization that many of Apple’s customers will encounter: Divorce. And let me tell you, the same problem causes big divorce court drama (I’ve been called in as an expert witness on several cases). So it is pretty stupid on Apple for not having a mechanism in place to support this by now; really, the only conceivable reason they are still clinging to the current policies is greed…they just want the “victims” of their policy stupidity to just buy the stuff again. (30% CHA-ching!)
The original run of the story was the husband never wanted to share. so end of story.
Nothing to do with being a shill, it’s all about privacy. he is entitled to what he wanted her out of, even when dead.
So stop making excuses for people who are lying, the game isn’t the goal, that’s an easy fix. She is wanting a find a way to want he did not want her to have.
Also thanks for being the spell police but draught and draft are interchangeable depending on country and it’s likely racist to demand people conform to your spelling. I also use burnt instead or burned depending on the scenario and in your country you don’t but the rest of the world won’t change for you.
So there.
Also the woman is still not telling the whole story here so the rest of what you say is crap. She originally was screaming on news that apple demanded of her to produce a court order.
All this for a stupid free game?
Apple suggested she get one if she wanted access to his personal data, which is not how she reports it.
The husband wanted her out of the mail for some reason, even in death his wishes should be honoured unless she can sway a court there’s something their she is entitled to.
This is NOT about a stupid game.It still a stupid story because it doesn’t start with the truth, it’s media being exploited by a family to try and get something but they don’t want to tell why they are so keen to get at it. The ‘game’ is a smoke screen and you fell for it. Remind me never to call you as a witness as you are so easily duped by old women.
To solve this problem Apple could have you name a beneficiary. Then the death certificate and proof of ID should suffice. Here in California, that is all a bank typically needs to hand over large sums of money to named beneficiary. (It seems a Will is powerless without a lawyer, other than to perhaps freeze assets in lue of a court order)
I agree, Apple should have a procedure in place to transfer digital purchases to named beneficiaries. However, private data in the account must be deleted upon the death certificate.
Note that Apple may have to do it differently in different countries as the laws have to be clear about this. The laws in US are very muddy about this.
On the other hand, it could be that a person keeps data on their device that they never want to pass on to anyone.
This is story is a bit of a Trojan. You want to have sympathy for the old lady, and I do, but passwords as such should never be given out without the consent of the original user (like in a will). Data that is password protected is private and should remain that way. I would assume this case is just about the digital assets, and there should be law allowing for the transfer of digital assets and licenses in my opinion just like any other property, but passwords are about privacy and just being married to someone doesn’t give them the right to reveal the private contents those passwords protect. My wife knows all of my passwords because I want her to know them in case something happens to me. There is nothing i consider private from her, so it’s not a problem for me, but that isn’t the case with everyone. We have a serious privacy problem in this world today and it’s only getting worse.
I’m sorry but you’re wrong here. It’s no different than a bank account, insurance/retirement benefits, or ownership of a house or car. If you die, minus a will, your property automatically goes to your spouse. The phone is property. Bank accounts have passwords, but they transfer. I agree there should be laws that treat digital assets just like physical property. There’s essentially no difference. The lady and her issue is ancillary to the real question of digital assets and how to handle them in the event of death. Should be easy in my opinion. Treat it like the rest of the property.
I’m sorry but you’re wrong here. Bank accounts have passwords but only protect financial statements. iCloud passwords can protect much much more information, especially in the form of e-mail and messaging. Those things are private and should not be disclosed without permission of the deceased. Transfer the assets… Yes.. Not the key to private communications, not without consent. Communication isn’t property and the right to privacy should not be infringed.
You folks forget that to get his pension, etc, she has to be on record as owning it upon his death (does she not?). Not to mention that the Apple ID PW is tied not to just financial information, but personal information as well. There may be something that he didn’t want her to have. It is not for us or Apple to judge that person or the information. So many people want security at all costs, except for this situation!?!?
Pension/insurance/property generally goes to spouse at death. A will can designate other heirs. As for not wanting someone to have something, if it’s not designated in a will before death, there’s no recourse. Besides there’s nothing that says he had something he wanted to hide. That’s pure supposition.
If the person didn’t have anything to hide, then why didn’t he give his wife his password? My Dad lives with me and I know his passwords!!! Apple is taking security seriously. I expecting nothing less. LastPass for example now has a feature where you can give out passwords to a group of people. Say 10 people, but only need say 5 of them to gain access to your Master Password which gets you access to all the other passwords. So you’re still secure. 1 or 2 people can’t just gain access to all your passwords.
You could keep your passwords in a WILL, or locked in a Safe or something IF you want someone to have access to your digital data after you die, which will happen to all of us at some point.
I think your missing some info, it was said that he told them that he did not want them to have the password prior to his death.
@JBDragon. The dude died. That could be why he didn’t give his wife his password. Unfortunately, not everyone is prepared for that eventuality.
The dide died, yes. But she admits he refused to give her the password. Just because he dies, she can override his wish?
That goes against liberty and personal privacy, the data is still his, even when dead. he simply didn’t want her in his mail.
She is now reporting in some Canadian media that she forgot to ask him the password, earlier it was because he had repeatedly refused. Obviously she is changing the story to get the result she wants.
@ Dee Christopher,
He died of Lung Cancer, so plenty of time to get his plans in place. While I can accept he may have neglected to provide this information for family use, there was definitely time for him to get his affairs in order.
I, like many others, have provided the means for a trusted individual to access my accounts in case of my death or disability. It is a simple part of end-of-life planning.
Yep he willed her to have his pension on a beneficiary designee form.
He repeatedly refused to share the password, so there was no will for her to have that.
Amazing that we talk about privacy and so many are so keen to hand over everything. what’s more this old woman says its a free game she wants. We ll that’s a way easier fix than calling lawyers and the TV station. There is far more to this story, the obviously think he hid money or something as they want into his mail.
If Apple wiped the contacts and mail and gave her the ID I would agree, but just because someone dies, he has the same expectation of privacy and the wife does not get what he did not want to give her.
If she has access to the device and can unlock it, she can probably go to the App Store> iForgot > send email to change password. And assuming the old man had his email accounts synced to the device then she would be able to reset the password
There are some true gems in this comment section. Many InternetCertified Lawyers. You should ask Apple for a job and also you should vote for Trump.
People want to hop on the poor old lady bandwagon when they know nothing about the family. Let’s suppose they are married but separated and he has confidential information in his iCloud account such as bank records he never wanted her to have. THAT’s why you need a court order.
And if it’s so innocent that all this poor old woman wanted to play her card game, then why didn’t she just get her own Apple account and re-download the game? Instead, she creates a media sh*t storm.
She didn’t just want to play a card game.
Issue 1: Is iPad and apps running on it transferable property (interest) whose titles can be inherited by the successors? Yes
Issue 2: Is the password property that can be assumed by successors? Analogy here should be drawn from real-life passwords (the things that authenticates that you are who is claiming to do the transaction): That would be a signature. A person’s signature is transferable but property acquired using that signature can be transferred to other persons. It is wrong for successor in title to sign own husband’s signature. So, it should be wrong for her to demand his password. She could demand a transfer of right to the iPad and the app, not deceased owner’s password, finger print, iris scan, facial recognition indices, personal passcode, etc.
Issue 3: Can a person have expectation for protection of his personal secret upon his death? If a person while alive indicates certain aspect of his life a secret he’d rather keep from his successors in title, The law protects that secret upon his death, even goes out of its way to do so under equity. Personal dignity is something their rule of law protects for humans more than for anything else. And the courts in every land protect it even upon death. That is the basis of secret trusts. Under this law, if a person gives a part of his property to a secret trustee to benefit a hidden person (say an illegitimate child), the law protects that secret from the successors in title (say the wife) and allows that property carved out of the estate to be managed by the secret trustee (say a lawyer) who alone knows who is truly receiving that money. In this case, the user has personal secrets he has clearly shown that he does not want to share with his family and has secured that with the password token. The password is not a ‘simple stupid password”. It is a token of the deceased’s intentions. The user could have used a ‘family share’ setting but chose not to. His secret should be protected.
Issue 4: Is successor in title of the deceased estate also entitled by virtue of this position to break inter vivos secret pacts made by the deceased? Apparently Not. If all you need to know everything I am keeping secret from you is to just survive me, then secret is no longer secret. And the phrase, “That will go to the grave with me” will be a hollow oath. What will be the implication if the deceased has access to information that will be particularly harmful to national security, safety of others living, and so on?
Issue 5: To the extent that our Apple ID password and the things they encrypt amount to a secret pact between Apple and a user, Is it reasonable to expect that these pacts should survive the death of the user? It is arguable that it is a trust relationship whose sole beneficiary is the deceased, and in his sole interest should guide every decision of Apple’s and the courts.
Notifications +
To be honest, it makes me feel good that Apple won’t give away my password so easily.
If somebody gave my password(s) to anybody after my death
I would dig myself out of my grave and haunt whoever did it.
MY passwords are MINE.
If I want to share them (and I do for a few) — I make sure they are shared.
I am in a very similar situation, my husband had aMac book Pro, we also have 2mac desk tops (his & mine) and 2 iPads. We never bothered to share passwords with each other either, because we both had our own systems. Now he has passed away, and while I can log into his desk top and laptop, I do not know his Apple ID and password, therefore am unable to do any Apple updates, which will render both useless in the future. All property, pensions, bank accounts transferred to me via death certificates. So although the will was filed no need to probate. Yes, I was named as executor. Hoping someone figures this out, would like to be able to update and use this in the future. By the way, yes I knew his e-mail password, so could have read them at anytime.
I am dealing with this right now for my son who passed away in May ….someone smashed his phone and I can’t even get into that without paying $1000+ dollars because all the codes I knew he used doesn’t work. For me this is about getting his photos and texts to see why he died, what happened at the end of his life….He had no estate to file and now I need to get a court order that will also cost me money. But there may not even be any info there if he didn’t back up the phone….This has been so difficult to deal with. All the communications companies are the ones that have made me jump through hoops to get his stuff..He. Is. Dead. A death certificate should be enough to get what I want. Is not my grief enough without adding this hardship to my list????