Lightning and USB Type-C Connectors
Yesterday on his Talk Show podcast, Daring Fireball’s John Gruber suggested that his Apple sources told him that Apple invented USB Type-C. Known for often insightful but always ‘not negative‘ Apple commentary, Gruber sometimes peppers his stories with info he’s gained from inside Apple which he calls “little birdies” (that admittedly haven’t been 100% recently, but used to be spot on).
The quote, taken from TheTechBlock about 54 minutes in:
I have heard, can’t say who, but let’s call them “informed little birdies”, that USB-C is an Apple invention and that they gave it to the standard bodies. And that the politics of such is that they can’t really say that. They’re not going to come out in public and say it, but they did. It is an Apple invention and they do want it to become a standard.
That’s a bit weird, because if Apple did invent USB Type-C, it would seem like a no-brainer for replacing Lightning. But Gruber noted in a post earlier this week that he didn’t think Apple would replace Lightning with USB Type-C.
I think the answer is probably “No, Apple is not going to switch the iPhone and iPad to USB-C”. I think Lightning is a more elegant design, including being slightly thinner. And I think Apple likes having a proprietary port on iOS devices.
But, if they did move iOS devices to USB-C, then you could charge your iOS devices and MacBook with the same cable. And within a few years, all phones and tablets from all companies would charge using the same standard.
A few minutes of research into the matter yields a wealth of data about the genesis of USB Type-C and while Apple does play an active role, it appears they had a lot of help – to put it charitably…
On the initial USB Type-C press release from 2013, Intel, Texas Instruments and the USB Working Group are on the release without any sign of Apple. As inventors of the standard, Apple could have easily been mentioned here unless they were adamant about keeping their role silent.
It appears that USB Type-C was initially submitted in 2012, the same year Apple announced Lightning. If it was Apple that invented this, it would have gone through a lot of testing and iterations by the many companies listed on the PDF by the time it was made a standard last year. And when Apple invents something, they aren’t shy about sharing that fact with the world, especially if it will help their customers adopt the technology — see Firewire, Thunderbolt (aka LightPeak), etc.
Nokia’s 2014 N1 has a USB Type C interface that looks a bit like Lightning
If Apple did indeed “invent” USB Type-C, it would be very strange that Nokia would have announced a product with it last year (the N1 Android tablet, pictured above). While Apple was the first to announce a laptop with the standard, Google’s Chromebook Pixel 2 was announced hours later, and is the first laptop to ship with the spec, landing in reviewers’ hands last week. It is strange, however, that Google seemingly held their announcement back until after Apple announced the MacBook.
Apple on its contribution to USB-C
On the other hand, there is a seemingly complete list of engineers from a number of companies (below) that contributed and Apple isn’t even in the top Chair or Editor roles, though it does have more listed contributors than all but a few companies, including Intel, Tyco and JAE.
All told, Apple contributed 18 of 79 named engineers listed on the connector certification project or under 23%.
Clearly, Intel is still out in front of overall USB technology development; after all, it has to create the Broadwell chips that interface with USB Type C on the Pixel 2 and new MacBook. A side note and a little history here: Intel invented the original USB spec, but the connector went nowhere until Apple put it in its colorful translucent new iMac with no legacy ports for users to fall back on. Only then did peripheral makers slowly begin building products for USB. That was a different world where Apple products didn’t demand the respect they get now and we’re already seeing a number of USB-C products getting ready for the new MacBook (and Pixel 2, I guess).
So while it might be impossible to find definitive evidence that Apple didn’t submit the initial USB Type-C proposal, it at very best had an incredible amount of help from the rest of the industry getting the standard into production.
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This article is seems it’s based on paper filings and document dates which is good anecdotally but you should definitely dig deeper and start talking to some sources. From the grape vine, USB-C was actually developed (by Apple) alongside of thunderbolt – which is why USB-C was initially submitted the same year that Thunderbolt was announced (they were worked on at the same time). Apple liked the added versatility the additional bandwidth that thunderbolt offered so they made that their more immediate choice and the one they would (at least at the time) place their future products on to replace aging Firewire. Also your point about if Apple created they would not be shy about it, isn’t actually accurate about their thinking with matters like this. Don’t forget “light peak” (the name of thunderbolt before it became thunderbolt) was said to have been Intel developed and the new standard for all manufactures however when it was found out that Lightpeak was largely developed by Apple, PC manufacturers shy’ed away from using it as they didn’t want to share a standard with Apple and due to that Apple just embraced the standard as their own (since they 85% developed it anyway) and renamed it to thunderbolt and went full steam ahead. In that same line of thinking they are keeping this one quiet as well so it can be embraced by all manufacturers as it benefits them overall if they are using the standard that everyone is (more options for their users to buy peripherals). Additionally Apple did have help like you state from other engineers but not in the same spirit you’re presenting it. Apple drove the project doing most of the engineering heavy lifting and those engineers pursued the engineers from other companies assigned to the project to get input from them before they stamped their ‘invention’. Don’t take my word for this of course, do a little more digging and talk to people and you’ll get more of the real story.
I’d say it’s a case of poor wording, because even if its the way you described, the word “invented” is wrong. “Spearheaded” would be far more accurate, which I could believe. Custom ports for everything has its limits.
I suggest you look into it and pick up a dictionary. The word “invented” is quite apt, even if it doesn’t encompass Apple’s extensive roll.
Well said.
“Lightpeak” became “Thunderbolt” when they were forced to move it from fiber to copper initially due to costs (and other factors). The name re-brand didn’t really have anything to do with Apple.
I invented it too, me and Apple.
Finally. An Apple-centric article that isn’t a shameless plug ¡
I’m surprised that this is news to anyone. Apple has been involved with the USB spec since its inception. I imagine that was part of the reason why the iMac was one of the first computers to come with USB standard.
When USB stagnated, Apple made FireWire. Then USB fought against FireWire and it seemed like Apple let it win. Now Apple creates ThunderBolt and again seems to let USB just walk in and phase it out. I think this is just Apple’s way of forcing USB to get better faster.
This is so wrong I can’t even begin to address it. IEEE-1394 aka FireWire was developed long before USB. You could buy FireWire ASICs on the open market before the USB development committee was formed.
I see. I should probably change “Apple made FireWire” to “Apple started deploying FireWire in its products”. Either way, Apple was definitely a champion for it. I’m more focusing on why FireWire died, Apple didn’t really seem to put up much of a fight. Even though FireWire 800 was still technically faster than USB 2.0 HiSpeed, there was a turning point where new computers and devices were adding more USB ports and dropping almost FireWire support at the same time.
And now they’re doing it again with ThunderBolt. As if per a plan.
That does sound a bit backwards. While Firewire 400 and 800 was king in areas that relied on media (video, high resolution images, DTP, etc…) – USB was very popular, though slow (USB 1.1 is 12Mbps and even USB 2’s 480Mbps was only at half duplex).
Apple did switch its iPod from Firewire connector to a USB connector (30pin/USB) back in the day.
The actual dates:
Firewire development started in 1986 and the IEEE standard was released in Jan 1995;
USB development started in 1994 and the standard was released in Jan 1996, about 40 times slower that Firewire;
USB 2 (the first version to get close to Firewire speeds) came in 2000.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394#History_and_development
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#History
It is interesting that Google embargoed their Pixel 2 announcement until after the MacBook announcement, even though it shipped sooner. I wonder if Apple was more involved than the USB committee let on, and they brokered a New Hampshire Primary / Iowa Caucus-style deal where Apple would be the first to announce a notebook with USB Type C while Google would be the first to actually ship one.
Bingo…
They want to move away from Intel, so I think it makes perfect sense to keep their proprietary cables and such. However it does confuse me WHY they would choose to use it for this laptop for a brief period, cause we all know they will come out with a standard more fit for supplying power, if thunderbolt or lightning couldn’t. Maybe another revision of lightning. Cook has made some interesting steps… But if they want to move away from Intel chips on their laptops in the future, I would think it makes sense to not rely on them for their connectors as well. This laptop is Intel, so maybe that’s why the usb-c
It would certainly be good for Apple customers if they were to go USB-C for everything, but that would cut off Apple’s juicy licensing profits from accessory makers who need access to the Lightning port. Apple sadly acts exclusively in the interests of its profits, and if that happens to inconvenience customers, so be it.
No, Apple makes (or tries to make) the best gadgets possible. USB-C is for traditional computers – TB2 is for larger or pro computers and light pining is for tablets and portables. There are trpechnical reasons for all of this. It is not purely for profit, yet like every company, Apple does work for profit.
This Apple-cynicism fits poorly with the fact that Apple was one of the first adopter’s of USB, so no-one was ever ford to use FireWire instead, and that Apple is now one of the first adopters of USB Type C. (BTW, Apple never charged a license fee for using Firewire _technology_; instead Apple made it available through IEEE1394 standardization. For a while Apple did strangely charge for use of the _name_ “FireWire”, causing everyone else to just call it IEEE1394, so that was a fail.)
P. S. “acting in the interest of profits” is more or less mandatory for publicly held companies; strange to throw it around as a criticism of any one company in particular.
USB is driven by a consortium of companies and organizations (of which Apple is a part of). However I don’t think Apple invented the Type-C connector, i’m sure they inspired it and may have even had a hand in its creation but I don’t think they “invented” it alone, much like the rest of the USB spec and connectors.
Sure they did: http://www.google.com/patents/US7094086
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/thumbnails/US7094086B2/US07094086-20060822-D00007.png
Uh. looks a little old
Yeah. Isn’t 20 years like even 30 or more in Moore’s law.
jhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law
If you look closer at the link, there’s a slew of patents from Apple (at least one specifically for Lightning) that cite/reference this one for it’s advent of reversible USB. So let’s not pretend that Apple came up with reversible USB. Did they miniaturize it? Possibly.
Let’s see: USB, (HDMI, DisplayPort, and VGA), and 100W 20A bi-directional power in a reversible plug. Certainly, you aren’t suggesting that that patent is relevant here.
If you look closer at the link, there’s a slew of patents from Apple (at least one specifically for Lightning) that cite/reference this one for it’s advent of reversible-USB. And of course they didn’t invent bi-directional power over USB (http://www.google.co.in/patents/US7863856). Nor did they invent DisplayPort/VGA over USB (http://www.google.com/patents/US8615611 and http://www.google.com/patents/US7904620). If you’d like to suggest that they combined and miniaturized these technologies – then sure they might have invented it.
Firewire wasn’t solely Apple invention. Sony was involved with that one and I believe a few others as well.
right, sorry if it sounded like I meant that Apple ALONE invented Firewire. I meant that they took credit for being part of the creation.Apple didn’t mention anything about creating USB-Type C
They didn’t mention in the keynote, but the MacBook page on Apple.com says “…we contributed to a new universal connectivity standard…”
I can easily argue the case that Apple has always been for connector standards where they’re good and where they exist. There are few exceptions.
First, Apple standardized on SCSI – admittedly with a DB-25 connector. After all, the original SCSI connector standard was a 50-pin Centronics connector – unthinkably huge even for the time. Apple went with SCSI, and the SCSI industry leapt forward.
Then, Apple invented and gave away Firewire – a standard in the A/V industry for a decade – with the goal being a cheaper/better/faster/simpler SCSI.
Then Apple left ADB and SCSI and went whole-hog to USB & Firewire – in fact, the entire first large wave of USB devices were “iMac bondi blue”.
Apple also gave up its old proprietary video connectors for VGA, and then went to DVI, and later moved to DisplayPort. Apple wanted a smaller DisplayPort connector, so it invented the mini Displayport connector design – and yet again gave its design away.
Apple invented Lightning because the original high-speed USB3 standard mini connector, in a word, sucked. The industry wasn’t going to follow Apple here – they were content with the bastardized USB2 connector.
I don’t see Apple abandoning Lightning until USB-C is “great” – with a small & robust connector. There is a good chance that will happen – Apple has a great track record both leading and following excellent standards, and I don’t see it being any different this time around.
Several companies developed Firewire, it wasn’t just Apple. Remember it’s technically IEEE 1394. For sony it was iLink, for Apple it was Firewire. Part of the reason it never flew was because they DID charge for it. A LOT, like $1 a port: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-220209.html&st.ne.ni.lh
Apple used proprietary video connectors for many years, they never standardized on VGA. They used something called ADC “Apple Display Connector” instead of VGA from 2000 to 2004, when they FINALLY settled on standard DVI.
Apple didn’t “invent” lightning, it co-developed it with Intel and a few other hardware companies.
Apple did the original development of FireWire, and then participated in its standardization by IEEE as “1394”, at which stage other companies like Sony also participated. Sony then developed a smaller power-less 4 pin variant under the name iLink, which was added to the IEEE 1394 standard.
“Apple didn’t “invent” lightning”
I think you meant Thunderbolt. That was co-developed by Apple and Intel. Although the mini DisplayPort used by Thunderbolt was created by Apple and was adopted by VESA as part of the DisplayPort specification.
Apple did in fact invent the Lightning port and protocol which was used to replace their Dock connector on iOS devices and accessories. This new USB-C standard was heavily influenced by Apple’s Lightning.
Furthermore, Apple did in fact create FireWire and then submitted it to IEEE. From their other companies can join in and work together to advance the technology.
Apple has a long history of creating their own proprietary serial bus standards starting with ADB and AppleTalk in the mid 80’s. The former of which was adopted by several other companies including NeXT and Sun Microsystems.
Gruber gets dinged for having on “little birdie” being wrong a year ago? I know he like to dig up people’s inaccurate claims and predictions as “claim chowder” but these are typically people who are frequently wrong.
Guys… it’s looking like a conspiracy theory.
I think it’s irrelevant if either Apple “invented” it or not. I’m more focused on the benefits that this new technology can and will bring to us, like mentioned in the article: all phones and devices being charged very fast with the same cable type. Or devices charging each other. I don’t know, the possibilites are unlimited.
By the way, I don’t think Apple “invented” it. The support to this theory is a blogger who is known to be an Apple’s lover? Just my opinion, of course.
Apple didn’t invent anything
Since it seems you guys want proof that Apple was not the inventor of USB-C I went ahead and read all of the USB 3.1 documentation which can be found here http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/. It contains 51 different PDFs.
In the original USB 3.1 Bus specification July 2013, if you read through the document (631 pages) you will find that Apple did not contribute to the bus specification. the following are the lead companies
Hewlett-Packard Company
Intel Corporation
Microsoft Corporation
Renesas Corporation
ST-Ericsson
Texas Instruments
IF you look at the the USB 3.1 power specification (586 pages) you will see that Apple was not an original contributor and was only listed as a contributor after the August 2014 revision.
If you look at the USB-C connector documentation (171 pages) You will see that, of the lead Chairmans: two where from Intel, one was from Foxcon and one was from Seagate. Nowhere does it give special recognition to Apple.
In short we have proof that Apple did not help develop the USB 3.1 bus specification or power specifications and that it was a group effort led by others that developed Micro USB-C.
The original USB spec is almost identical to Apple’s ADB from the mid 80’s and this new spec is strikingly similar to Apple’s Lightning. So, yeah, while Apple did not invent USB, it was clearly influenced by Apple’s proprietary bus protocols.
The question is specifically about the USB Type-C connector; I do not see anyone is claiming that Apple invented all of the USB 3.1 spec. What is the record on the development of that connector?
I am equally willing to believe that Apple’s main role was showing up the deficiencies of all USB connectors up to and including micro USB-3 with its Lightning design, and inspiring the USB group to do so much better with the USB Type C connectors. If only “USB-C” were slim enough to fit into all phones; do phones have to get a bit fatter now to accommodate it?
Read it again.
Obviously Apple made some significant contributions. This wasn’t finalized back then. From what I know about this, the reversible connector was pushed by Apple. That alone, even if they had contributed nothing else, would be significant. But again, from what I know, some of the later work on the methodology of the automatic device sensing comes from Apple’s work with Lightning.
Whoever even thought that usb-c would replace lightning on IOS devices is high. Lightning is smaller than usb-c and if anything Apple would make lighting smaller thanit is now or make a new connection type that is much smaller. Just like lightning enabled Apple to make devices thinner, like lightning.
If you feel Gruber’s content is always “not-negative” of Apple then you haven’t been paying attention, newbie.
Thunderbolt to usb C Connector ? Anyone ?
The USB association prevented Thunderbolt from using the USB connector from the beginning. thunderbolt originally had that connector in prototype. So it’s not likely they would approve it now. And what for? Thunderbolt 2 already is at 20Gbs, and allows bonding of two channels for 40Gbs. It will move higher over the years. It’s doubtful that the USB specs would allow such high transfer rates.
Besides, Thunderbolt isn’t a protocol such as USB and other specs. It s a pipe that allows other specs to ride over it, such as USB itself.
Sure – he can be critical of Apple but he’s rarely if ever as vitriolic towards them as he is towards Google, Blackberry, or pre-Android Microsoft.
I thought it a bit odd that Gruber claimed that. Perhaps he. Is interpreted what he was told. It wouldn’t be the first time. Apple isn’t shy about what they contribute, and that’s how it should be.
Simple answer: NO they did not! It’s USB!It’s developed by a bunch of companies (Compaq, DEC, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, …) and Apple just announced their first USB-C laptop model a few days earlier than the others!