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Oculus VR founder says they won’t support Mac until Apple ‘releases a good computer’

Screen Shot 2016-03-03 at 3.39.38 PM

What role Apple should play in virtual reality has been debated for a while now, but one major VR company today had a few things to say about Apple as a whole. Speaking to ShackNews at the Microsoft Windows 10 Showcase in San Francisco, Oculus VR founder Palmer Luckey was asked about the possibility of the Oculus platform ever supporting Mac OS X; his response was that it depends on if Apple ever “releases a good computer.”

“That is up to Apple. If they ever release a good computer, we will do it,” Luckey explained. Luckey’s definition of a “good computer” seems to center around graphics performance, which is obviously something important to using the Oculus Rift.

Luckey explained that Apple simply doesn’t offer a Mac with a good enough graphics performance to meet the specifications recommended by Oculus. Not even a Mac Pro with the “top of the line” AMD FirePro D700 is capable enough to run Oculus Rift, Luckey said.

It boils down to the fact that Apple doesn’t prioritize high-end GPUs. You can a buy $6,000 Mac Pro with the top of the line AMD FirePro D700 and it still doesn’t meet our recommended spec. If they prioritize higher-end GPUs like they used to for awhile back in the day, I think we’d love to support Mac.

Luckey didn’t stop there. He went on to reiterate the fact that there is “just not a single machine out there that supports it.” He acknowledges that while Mac users may want to use Oculus Rift, there’s just “no audience of people that can run the vast majority of software out there.”

You may remember that Oculus Rift was originally supposed to support Macs, but the company put development on hold nearly a year ago. At the time, Oculus said that it wanted to focus on delivering a high-quality experience for Windows users, but that it hoped to pick back up on Mac development at some point.

The Oculus Rift virtual reality viewer is available for pre-order now at $599 and will ship sometime in July. You can watch the video of Luckey’s comments below:

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Comments

  1. samuelsnay - 8 years ago

    Because Apple should devote millions of dollars toward putting massive GPUs into Macs in order to appease the basement-dwelling neckbeards who the Rift is geared toward.

    There’s obviously nothing that can go wrong with trying to build a computer specifically so that in can run a technology that’s likely to just be a flash in the pan.

    • Chris Cooper (@clcooper) - 8 years ago

      Good timing on the neckbeard reference with this article’s header image. Which should be a better image anyway – do we really need to see straight up this guy’s nose holes? good thing there are no bats in the cave!

      • rnc - 8 years ago

        The image is just a model they contracted off an agency.

        This is the real one: http://imgur.com/1DobD00

      • pdixon1986 - 8 years ago

        haha… i thought the image was strange too… why not take a pic from side on instead of crouching down in front of him to point a camera up at his nose…lol

    • Jurgis Ŝalna - 8 years ago

      VR has a massive appeal for business, not just gamers.

      • Jim Phong - 8 years ago

        That is not going to happen. It is just another cheap marketing bubble that can only burst quick as hell like the fake stereoscopic 3D with its glasses.
        Just more ancient outdated technologies that can’t deliver a proper 3D experience and cause eye strain.

      • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

        yes, But I don’t think any laptop workstation or no workstation, is able to drive it right now.

      • dwisehart - 8 years ago

        Not really.

      • Rich Davis (@RichDavis9) - 8 years ago

        It’s STILL a small niche group of users and for many of them, really only want to play video games and have some bragging abilities. It’s not a common need for the majority of businesses/users. In order for Apple to go after that market, it has to be big enough for Apple to go after it because they will get a small percentage due to the vast number of Windows users. And it sounds like one has to use very powerful GPU’s. Laptops are what is selling more than desktops, and does Oculous even support a Windows laptop? From the sounds of it, they don’t, so laptops, at this point in time, 60% of the market is immediately out. That’s over 60% of the traditional OS market. So, now we are looking at a small percentage of the remaining 40%, so we’re probably talking about less that 1%, MAYBE that are planning on buying these things and using them for something other than games and to show off to their friends.

        How many Oculous’ have they sold? How many people that are planning on buying them will actually use them more than just an introductory period to get that WOW factor out of their system? A lot of these types of products get used for a few months to show off to their friends, and then they stop using them. Remember Google Glass? No one seems to talk about them anymore and I STILL have yet to see anyone wearing them.

      • yebot - 8 years ago

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      • Jurgis Ŝalna - 8 years ago

        Wow lot of clueless haters here. Every single tech company is working on their VR solution. We are only starting to discover VR applications in businesses. Most notable one currently is training, especially for workers in hazardous environments. The most lucrative area will be immersive video delivery + advertising.

        Anyway, this title is a clickbait. Shame on 9to5 how they turning into spamhouse.

      • pdixon1986 - 8 years ago

        I think you are confusing VR with AR — AR is huge for businesses… with AR they can still interact with the environment around them… Microsoft Hololens is geared at business… VR is geared at gaming. (VR closes you off from the world around you… it could be used for training schools for doctors etc to practice procedures BUT essentially thats the same idea as gaming) BUT the problem with implementing it into businesses everyone would need a headset — $600 per person in a business is expensive when you could just screen share and use skype etc.

      • Geir L K (@geirlk) - 8 years ago

        A previous company I worked at set up a 3D visualization lab for a oil company to study seismographic data in a 3D environment. They used 6 top of the line projectors at a cost of about $100.000 _each_, running on SGI machines costing about the same as the projectors, with the development of the software accompanying it priced at 3 times the cost of the lab itself.

        $600 is peanuts. And they would’ve loved having an Oculus to do the job, I can assure you.

        Costs are always relative to the ROI.

      • ericperlberg - 8 years ago

        AR more than VR.

    • Saris - 8 years ago

      That’s laughable. Macs are generally weak for gaming – a very common use case.

      Macs are just targeted at people who mostly want to use the OS in simple ways. Even the keyboard shortcuts betray the lack of brain power put into building a good experience not centered on a mouse.

      • That’s funny. Is there a keyboard shortcut in Windows yet to create a new folder? You should probably check what you know about each platform, because of the Mac that’s nothing.

      • samuelsnay - 8 years ago

        And the constant crashing and bugs in Windows 10 betrays the lack of brain power that went into designing the entire OS.

      • Michael Bang - 8 years ago

        That’s is very funny indeed, i has used a windows pc for many years, and just recently switched to an mac. And i can tell you, there are a whole lot more of keyboard shortcuts on OSX, that on windows, and, to me at least , they are more easily to figure out.

      • (in response to Bruno Fernandes(@linkb8))

        the keyboard shortcut for new folder in windows is ctrl+shift+N

    • Inaba-kun (@Inaba_kun) - 8 years ago

      Wow, that’s a new low in infantile, puerile, uneducated, moronic, and downright stupid commenting. I know standards are low on the internet, but well done, you’ve just delved deeper than any internet troll has ever managed.

      Having a powerful GPU has a vast array of advantages. Gaming at resolutions higher than 1080p at 60fps – 4K for example, game development (UE4, Unity, Maya, Max, Mudbox etc), film and TV modelling, SFX, and compositing, architectural and medical visualisation, Photoshop and other GPU accelerated 2D applications, and many more. VR is a fringe case at present buy why wouldn’t a tech company want to get on board with it?

      So please, go away you brain dead troll and don’t return until you’ve cultivated a brain cell or two. You’re a fool and an imbecile.

    • Mark Phillips - 8 years ago

      samuelsnay. vr a flash in the pan? really? wow ,how sooo short sighted.i would do some more research if i were you.I think its more a case of you realising youve bought into the underpowered, overpriced apple con trick.

    • srgmac - 8 years ago

      The Mac Pro already has “massive” GPUs — they’re just obsolete and underpowered because they haven’t been refreshed in such a long time…

    • I’m going to follow this comment to see what you say once apple announces a new innovative, revolutionary VR headset. Give or take three years.

    • John Charles Donahue - 8 years ago

      You should have added “mouth-breather” to “neckbeard”. The knuckle dragging neanderthals at Oculus are making a glaringly obvious statement of bias. They should just be honest. They don’t like Apple. They are part of that bread of Windows users that will do everything they have to avoid any Apple product, even if it means they have to invest more money and apply several mods in order to bring their devices only close to Apple’s operability. Oculus isn’t refusing to allow their product to operate on any computer that doesn’t meet their required specs, they are simply using this as an excuse to exclude Apple. Apple is the largest distributor of software on the planet and that is with their supposed limited user bases. Even Microsoft had to concede that if they did not open up the portable version of Office to iOS users their flagship product was going to suffer in the long run. Oculus will allow their product to operate on Windows PCs that fall below the specs of any Apple computer, so why the exclusion? Don’t they want to have the largest user base possible? Don’t they realize that most, if not all of existing standardized peripheral technology we have today can be attributed to its successful adoption on the Macintosh platform? USB was a dead technology until Apple made it the standard interface for connecting peripherals to the computer. Bluetooth would not be what it is today, if Apple had not made it the defacto wireless communication medium for peripherals that are within 30 feet of the host device/computer. Legitimate digital media exists and is affordable because Apple blazed the trail.

      So, let the fools at Oculus be exclusionary at their own peril. By eliminating Apple users from the playing field, they will most cartainly be dooming their company to becoming another one of those technologies that had a lot of promise but never really gained a place in driving the industry. They will fizzle out and the technology will likely be seen as inviable until Apple either buys them out or leapfrogs over them to create the industry standard for VR at the right time, with the right device, employing the most user friendly interface.

    • t g d (@samljer) - 7 years ago

      this comment is ridiculous.. vr is like… 25% about gaming.

  2. mobileseeks - 8 years ago

    And I am not going buy a Oculus VR until they actually release a good VR device.

  3. viciosodiego - 8 years ago

    Can we use an external GPU?
    Also, good computer sounds like he doesn’t like os X at all.
    Also, 95% of PC users can’t afford a pc with a GTX980 or titan X.

    • iSRS - 8 years ago

      I don’t think ability to afford it is an issue. I think the fact that many just plain don’t care.

    • jowens1259 - 8 years ago

      I just got an approximately 2 year old hand me down computer from my son. It is fast enough for Oculus VR.

  4. Steve Grenier - 8 years ago

    Despite him sounding like a dick, we would all benefit if Apple put in better GPUs into their Mac computers.

    • uniquified - 8 years ago

      All? I don’t play games on my Mac, and prefer battery life and little fan noise, so I don’t think I fit into that demographic.

      • mzaur8 - 8 years ago

        Pretty sure he was talking about desktops. There’s no reason the Mac Pro shouldn’t have a powerful GPU that can be used for gaming, especially since it costs so much

      • mahmudf2014 - 8 years ago

        I would love to play games on my Mac, but they don’t give me a choice for this. Not having external GPU on the 15″ base model rMBP is laughable. Even the top end 15″ has an old, not great GPU. They could put a much better GPU in their top-end computer especially when you think of the price and you could still get the mac with an integrated gpu. Everyone is not the same and that’s why you have to give them choices.

        Plus, the top-end 15″ Retina MacBook Pro pro has two GPUs. One of them is integrated Intel Iris Pro and the other one is AMD. So, when battery life and fan noise is important, you can use the integrated GPU. When performance is needed, you can turn to AMD.

    • Rich Davis (@RichDavis9) - 8 years ago

      I agree, that’s fine, but since Apple doesn’t make a kajillion different models or use tower designs anymore and they simply don’t have a big enough market share for every GPU mfg to spit out OS X drivers for every GPU they make. If they had a different business model where they sold tons of tower units and there was a lot of support in terms of driver development, then that would be a different story. The problem is that Apple doesn’t want to drive their company down to the ground like these PC mfg have been doing over the past 15 years and Apple still is seen as a niche player for desktops. The majority of the computer market is moving to using mobile devices (smartphones/tablets/laptops). Look at desktop vs laptop market share. Desktops are getting stagnate.

      About the ONLY “realistic” option I can see for Apple, which would still be a crap shoot in terms of market acceptance and profitability, is for Apple to essentially sell a version of OS X for the DIY crowd, but they would probably have to charge what Red Hat charges for their version of Linux, which is $300 a year for license/support and Apple would have to essentially spend a LOT of money in “blessing” certain PC motherboards, and they would have to probably write their own drivers for high end GPU cards. I just don’t see Apple doing this. It just doesn’t make sense.

      I think maybe Oculous requires too much GPU to be useful, which limits their own market.

      • gatorguy2 - 8 years ago

        Rich, yes there are laptops that meet the Oculus requirements. Do a Google search for “laptop with nVidia GTX 980”. I think they start out as little as $1600.

    • mpias3785 - 8 years ago

      Yet another reason for Apple to fill the vast voids between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the iMac and the Mac Mini. Users have been begging for expandable, headless Mac for years. Apple has forgotten the value of expandable computers and that’s going to hurt them badly in the long run.

      The iPhone market is becoming saturated as the iPad market has already become. A watch and a car are too far from their core business. If the watch was as successful as they’d like us to think, we’d have heard sales numbers by now and knowing Apple, the car will be too expensive for all but a very few to afford.

      Apple is in dire need of new management and the BOD is doing nothing about it. Cook is a great pencil pusher and I admire his stance on privacy, but he’s no visionary. Ive is just running out of ideas, is too focused on form over function and should have been put out to pasture (or institutionalized) the moment he suggested the new Mac Pro.

      That being said, Oculus is just incompetent if they can’t do for $600 what Google did with a piece of cardboard and a smartphone.

    • Avieshek (@avieshek) - 8 years ago

      mahmud2014 said something, ‘ve u understood?

  5. Brian Dunning - 8 years ago

    Oculus is not long for this world. VR headsets that you drop your smartphone into work just as well, at a tenth the price. I’ve used both and found nothing to justify the Oculus’ absurd price.

  6. yojimbo007 - 8 years ago

    Having better GPUs Or customizable computers will also help apple in the gaming environment.. Where PCs/windows have the kids mindshare..
    i hate to see kids choose pc/windows over macs for that reason alone. But they do..
    Apple needs to lure back these kids by providing a superior gaming envirnoment …. Which will also address the VR issue above.

    • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

      Microsoft is paying developers.
      And direct X is the dominating API right now.
      Even if apple put in better GPU’s, we still wouldn’t get games, even tho I like OS X more for gaming because I only need to drag them into the trash to uninstall.

      • yojimbo007 - 8 years ago

        Well my point is That they have to up their game in the area… No matter what it takes.. Apis.. Gpus, customization, creating incentives for developers..
        Kids mind share is extremely important . ….

  7. iSRS - 8 years ago

    You can create a Pixar movie on a Mac, but not run Oculus Rift. Perhaps he was a bit hyperbolic on his choice of words. Should have say “until they support graphic cards like XXX or better”

    • superberg (@superberg) - 8 years ago

      Pixar movies don’t render in real-time. Oculus requires realtime 3D rendering, and no Mac under $2200 has a discrete GPU, let alone a decent one. Every GPU in Apple’s lineup is mid-range from a few years ago.

      As snarky as his comment is, it’s not wrong. From a gaming perspective, Apple hardware can’t hold a candle to Windows. I don’t even think they can compare to a PS4 or Xbox One at this point.

      • What’s the current top resolution on Oculus best headset? I have a feeling it’s not going to be taxing to the majority of chipsets out there. Luckey has always talked out his ass. It’s was just lucky for him (no pub intended) that Facebook loved the taste of sphincter.

    • Ryan (@Raticide) - 8 years ago

      I think you’re confusing Oculus the company with Rift the headset. Oculus already make a headset that you can drop your smartphone in, it’s called the Gear VR. I’ve tried both and the smartphone headsets are nowhere near as immersive as the Rift. But it’s still pretty good for the price.

  8. Jim Phong - 8 years ago

    The VR farce is going to flop harder than the stereoscopic 3D one, the fake 3D with glasses that make people blind. The VR thing can make people blind too, it surely doesn’t make human eyes happy.
    And really no one wants to wear tiny glasses for stereoscopic 3D so who the heck is going to wear a bigger thing like a visor for VR ? NO ONE.
    Yeah some people will try that. It might sell even a few millions units. But that’s it. It won’t be a success. People will dislike such an ancient tech again.
    IT manufacturers must deliver thrue floating 3D holograms in space. Touchable 3D holograms in space. That is the only real technology that will sell to everyone and everyone will want to use.
    Until then old technologies like the fake 3D and now the VR thing are only going to be a huge failure for everyone involved.

  9. jschaff112 - 8 years ago

    HA. Yeah, that’s why every studio and other graphics developers use Macs rather than PC’s. Methinks he might have awakened a sleeping giant. Did I not hear that Apple is getting into VR, oh soon I hear. I would hate for Oculus to turn around one day and see a big VR MONSTER named Apple chomping on it’s ass.

    • jowens1259 - 8 years ago

      The thing is it won’t matter how much it cost or how good it is it will be the best. Then everyone will complain about how everybody copied Apple.

  10. viciosodiego - 8 years ago

    Time to do a reality check on this guy.
    1. Laptops can’t run 4k games at 80 to 90FPS, let alone a VR headset.
    2. Apple doesn’t focus on gamers, let alone Nerds who can’t get out of their basement.
    Note, I don’t hate VR but right now its a niche market because people won’t pay $1500 for that peace of junk that takes up 4 usb ports

    • 4nntt - 8 years ago

      It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t or couldn’t focus on gamers. With Metal they now have a good alternative to DirectX 12. It would be a challenge to convince publishers though. When VR takes off I expect people will want to drop the HDMI cable giving Apple a good entrance in to the market later with their custom silicon. If their mobile GPUs continue advancing they may be able to hit 90 frames per second on a mobile device in a few years.

  11. David Garon - 8 years ago

    If Apple doesn’t produce a “good” computer, who the fk does? I have to wonder how Mark Zuckerberg — owner of OR feels about this comment that will cut OR’s potential consumer base significantly. Other than souped up gaming machines, who makes a more powerful computer than the MacPro? Sounds like Luckey may not be so lucky after all. Particularly considering all the alternatives that are coming to market, some reviewed as far more powerful and/or useful than the Rift. Mark, time to rein this bozo in.

    Apple is also rumored to be working on its own VR implementation. As is often said in the press, Apple isn’t always first to market with a particular technology, but they are almost always the best when they do!

    • 4nntt - 8 years ago

      I would highly doubt apple would release a corded VR headset. If they release something I’m sure it will be a standalone device. The technology is probably getting close, but not quite there yet. I could definitely see a new arm chip with massive mobile GPU powering a headset in a few years.

  12. viciosodiego - 8 years ago

    3. I would advise you try to get it working under os X.
    Not that I’m buying that thing you call a VR hetset, But for anyone who gets an external GPU and wants to try this out.
    If you don’t, you would be losing a money making opportunity.

  13. 4nntt - 8 years ago

    I have a Windows machine for gaming, but I would love to see Rift on the Mac. I’m holding out hope for Thunderbolt 3 providing enough performance for external GPUs. Some ultra-thin Windows machines already have them.

  14. viciosodiego - 8 years ago

    Correct, me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t vr require 4k?
    If so, the Mac pro with d700s can handle 4k just fine, so they should be able to drive this alright.

    • 4nntt - 8 years ago

      Nope. The headsets out now are close to 2K. The real problem is they you need a really powerful GPU (Nvidia 970 or better) to display at 90 frames per second with very low latency.

      • jowens1259 - 8 years ago

        I have a 780 ti that shows to be fast enough for Oculus VR.

    • Sebastian - 8 years ago

      No it wouldn’t, gaming in 4K and running some basic programs in 4K isn’t the same thing..

    • Ryan (@Raticide) - 8 years ago

      the D700 is below the minimum spec for the Oculus Rift. Maybe with Crossfire it could pull it off, but there’s not much (any?) VR stuff that supports crossfire yet.

  15. A lot of whiners that take offense to someone not liking their preferred platform.

    The reality is that mac sells a lot of expensive equipment that doesn’t hold up (spec-wise) to a PC at the same price point.

    Lucky doesn’t seem like he enjoys the OS, but it doesn’t change that the hardware isn’t quite advancing with other technology.

    It’s always fun to check out a forum like this and see people who identify as Apple so hard that they can’t quite read writing on the wall.

    • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

      In my opinion, I can care less if VR comes to the mac or not.

      • Gareth Zahir-Bill - 8 years ago

        Do you mean you couldn’t care less, because if you could care less, maybe you should think about doing that?

  16. TechSHIZZLE.com - 8 years ago

    I’ll ignore everything “Palmer” says until he gets a real name.

  17. Marcin (@Marcinoo97) - 8 years ago

    my hackintosh is good enough for oculus rift so they should support mac.

  18. Liz Walker - 8 years ago

    I used an Oculus head set, and it gave me massive motion sickness. Yes the immersive effect did look amazing, but I will NEVER use one again, as it took hours to get over the sickness.

    As others have mentioned on here, it appears that Mac Pros can handle insane 3D rendering with Maya, C4D, After Effects, Premiere, FCP and lots of others, but not Oculus? Maybe their programming skills are an issue? Or maybe it’s just a PC fan boy geek who has his own personal hate of Apple and wants a way to gain more views of his video… after all, would this video be on here and im sure many Mac hate blogs/forums if he didn’t blatantly slag off Apple?

    • ericisking - 8 years ago

      Yep, just another Windows neckbeard. Nothing to see here. If you really want to see more of this, just go hang out on the comment threads of Windows Central or The Verge, and you can spend all day listening to people say that only idiots and poseurs use Macs, that you can’t do Real Work on a Mac, that Macs are toys and Facebook machines while Windows is for getting things done. The best one is when a Windows neckbeard calls you a sheep for using the computer with less than 10% market share. They accuse anyone who says anything positive about Apple as being brainwashed. They are constantly irate and enraged, but when you call them out on it, they accuse you of being touchy and taking things too seriously. Their whole life revolves around Microsoft products, but they think that’s just because Microsoft just happens to be the best at everything, whereas anyone who buys Apple gear is a cult member. They mostly work in IT, or live with their parents, or both. They look a bit funny too, often with eyes just a bit too close together. And they have a strange smell of warm, slightly sour milk. Yes, they do.

      • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

        Thanks for the info.
        Time to go piss off the MS fanboys lol.

  19. Justin Cooper - 8 years ago

    I guess that means we will need to start taking out a mortgage on a PC that can handle it, along with the headset itself.

  20. William Reid - 8 years ago

    How dare they question the judgment & put down the products that our overlords make.

  21. Rich Davis (@RichDavis9) - 8 years ago

    This just shows how far away VR really is from general market use. If they want VR to be used by the masses, they need to make it work with any i7 based computer sold in the last 3 years. The thing is that gaming is a big enough market for a start up small company. They essentially have about 1% of the total PC (laptops/desktops) as their market potential, which is probably around 20 million users potentially have the ability to use these things.. That’s not a big market. How many kids with DIY towers actually have a GPU that’s powerful enough? Most don’t, many do, but for those that don’t, they’ll have to convince their parents to fork over more money for a new GPU and the Oculous headsets, so they will probably have to spend another $1000 or more just to play a couple of VR games.

  22. giuseppe1111 - 8 years ago

    he is right.
    but no one cares about vr right now actually.

    true geeks and true nerds have their own assembled game machines.
    bloggers, fashionists and socialnetwork-addicted have macs.

    as long as you need pure power, a mac is not a clever choice.
    if you need portability, beautiful display, idiot-proof os and a “look-how-fast-facebook-open” effect, the mac is definitely your choice.

    • ericisking - 8 years ago

      You’re definitely right. All these people pretending to do real work on Macs, Iike scientists and teachers and writers and designers, are really just updating their Facebook status and trying to look cool. You’ve busted their jig.

      • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

        ah, another person who doesn’t know crap about os X.

      • Aunty T (@AuntyTroll) - 8 years ago

        viciosodiego:

        No fella – you don’t know crap about sarcasm, which is what ericisking’s comment is.

      • giuseppe1111 - 8 years ago

        you are right I am sorry,
        OS X is great, open and easy to customize (will let you change desktop background too), amazing for third party development support.

        all those teachers who need tons of gnu and cpu workload, right, powerpoint and word are damned cpu intensive

        and thanks God scientists don’t need software like sas, don’t need to use non-apple-signed drivers for external maybe old devices and software. your argument is flawless. They just need to read and write pdf…wait but preview will kill your pdf very easily,

        macs have always been a closed and low-pretending but high-spender consumer, all the rest is the image that marketing has build in your mind.

  23. twelve01 - 8 years ago

    What percentage of PCs are capable of running Oculus now? I suspect few – which is why Oculus also sells an accompanying PC.

  24. I’d rather spend $6000 dollars creating content than $1500 consuming it. It also puts it into the same neighborhood as other expensive game systems that failed. Anyone remember 3DO, Phillips CDI and Neo Geo? Have fun in VR land, basement dwellers!

  25. All this VR hype is great and all, but…

    It seems to me that the Rift solution is quite old-fashioned. Big computers, with big and expensive GPUs. What if Apple is already close to being able to bring a somewhat similar experience using an iPhone? And I’m not talking about the same, all-encompassing total-VR experience, but a more casual and mobile experience.

    When you look at iPhone 6S/6S Plus and what Apple has done to develop it from the 6/6 Plus, one of the most interesting improvements was the ability to push pixels a LOT faster. The camera was also made better. Now, imagine that Apple is able to improve the iPhone 7 even more in the graphics departement…you quickly end up with a really capable device for a VR and AR experience. Integrate Siri even more for voice commands and you begin to see a very powerful combination emerging: Strong CPU/GPU, a very good camera (for AR), loads of built-in sensors for motion-tracking etc., Siri for voice commands, lots of connectivity via 4/5G/WiFi/Bluetooth and so forth. AMOLED-screens could be the next improvement which this VR/AR machine would benefit from.

    All Apple really needs is to be able to keep the improvements to their SoC at the same rate as seen in latter years and build the necessary housing for the iPhone, when in VR/AR mode. True, it would be less capable to run the really high-end games – but it would be much more flexible and affordable.

  26. Paul Guba - 8 years ago

    He is right. The GPU in the Mac Pro is 3-4 years old. It was kinda old when they came out. That is a lifetime in computers. I am a huge Apple user but it was one of the reasons I built a hackintosh. The system specs on their pro machines were out of date and no update in sight. That was a year ago. Apple does a great job optimizing the OS to work with their hardware but there is no substitution for speed.

    • viciosodiego - 8 years ago

      Yet I see people using mac pros as old as 2007 for content production.

      • AnGel ツ (@angelsevov) - 8 years ago

        Yes we do, and we do it with Nvidias high-end graphic cards that fits perfectly in our old Mac Pros ;)

  27. Maybe this douche bag needs to build discrete graphics into his headset instead of relying on what’s in the box running the app.

    • Otherwise, what’s he done other than make a head-mounted display and some graphics libraries? Oh wait…

      • JBDragon - 8 years ago

        It’s a couple small displays and whatnot. Is there a ton of bloat in the code? How could it be this demanding? So to use this $600 device, you need a $2000 Windows PC!!!

    • Ryan (@Raticide) - 8 years ago

      I don’t think I want a GTX 980ti strapped to my head, it’d be too hot and bulky.

  28. viciosodiego - 8 years ago

    hum, I see a lot of MS sheep pushing around BS.
    Its funny, because I didn’t see them commenting on the microsoft adds.
    :d

  29. JBDragon - 8 years ago

    The Majority of Windows PC’s sold are low end cheap pieces of CRAP!!! Sounds like few Windows PC’s would work with it also!!! I have a pretty good high end Windows 10 PC I built. I spent hours this last Sunday trying to fix a number of issues, the biggest the Start Menu that wouldn’t open up!!! Then moving onto Settings for the Start Menu I wanted to change but were all grayed out and so I couldn’t do anything. It was driving me nuts and wasn’t very easy to fix. Most people would have given up. Either bring it someplace for a Expert to fix, Geek Squad would have just wiped the computer and started over.

    Windows 10 has it’s issues!!! Really, if you need a high end PC to run these things, something is wrong!!! Must be massive bloat in the code. So it’s $600 for these things, then you need a $2000 Desktop PC to use them!!! By the time you get a high end fast CPU, a couple high end graphic cards, lots of Memory, SSD, etc it’s in that range. Ouch!!! I guess that’s cheaper them for MS and their version which is $3000. That includes the computer in that price.

  30. mcghee33 - 8 years ago

    With Thunderbolt 3.0 it won’t matter what GPU is IN the mac because you will be able to connect and external GPU (ala the razer peripheral). Now apple will have to support this capability but that does not seem like much of a stretch.

  31. pdixon1986 - 8 years ago

    That makes no sense whatsoever… If you compare the average mac user (often the 13″macbook pro) to the average window user – you will find that the mac computer will have equal to or better than most window laptops…
    The mac laptop can even match or outperform most window desktops…

    The average window user wont have an amazing graphic card, often they will have the basic cpu, and they are almost certainly using a standard hard drive with basic ram…

    So more or less Luckey is also saying that the average person will not get to experience VR using their device… window users will need to buy a gaming computer with high end specs.

    Just looked at the DELL site – nearly all their PCs are not compatible…
    Looked at a major electronic site in the UK — out of 146 desktops (not including laptops) only 35 were compatible… the cheapest being £600 — but 30 of them were more than £1000.
    So basically the average person would need to go out and buy a new PC to use the a $600 headset…or spend money on upgrading their old machine – around £300 for a compatible graphics card…

    I think most people just wont bother – the costs are adding up…

    Plus, not all games are graphic intense and some are pretty much like the games on the GEAR VR which is a mobile platform…

    For them to criticise macs like that is a bit stupid — yes macs are not gaming machines, but that can handle movies, some games, and certainly mobile games… they should have also build the device to be compatible with phones…
    The high end specs should be for the full experience with the high end games…

    in short – they have shot themselves in the foot and by maintain such high specs they have cut out mac users, cut out phone users, and cut out most of the PC users too…

    I think i will wait and see the price for the Sony one — at least i can use that with my ps4.

  32. I own an Oculus D2 kit and it worked fine on my Mac pro with the Dual D700 cards. But I also used Morpheus at Playstation experience. That hardware felt far better and the visuals in game were better than what id experienced on Oculus. How did Sony get such great performance out of their hardware which is essentially 4 – 6 years behind? Sounds to me like Mr Palmer lucky is confused. or swallowing too much Samsung cool aid …. lmao

  33. Louis Banks - 8 years ago

    I won’t hate on his statement since it is true…however I’d say it’s a poor business practice to require consumers to upgrade their lives to match your product. Unfortunately if this product is ever meant to reach the masses, it needs to simplify. Having compatibility with some smartphones and what not is fine, but if the average computer user has to support massive system requirements, the product will stay niche.

  34. Graham J - 8 years ago

    Way to alienate potential customers there Luckey. A machine doesn’t have to have a $300 GPU to be “good” and the fact that I prefer Macs doesn’t mean I won’t build a gaming rig for VR. Hello Vive!

  35. stevelawrence - 8 years ago

    Since you can drop a smartphone into a Google cardboard viewer and have it produce perfectly acceptable VR, I would say the Oculus Rift is too over-demanding if it wants to achieve mass-market uptake. Can’t take on the world when only 5% of computers out there can drive the thing.

  36. superberg (@superberg) - 8 years ago

    So, basically what we’re seeing in this thread is a bunch of people who don’t know anything of substance about technology.

    The Oculus requires a GPU capable of rendering 3D on two decently-high resolution displays at a fast, consistent frame rate and in real time.The hardware to do this exists, but is not available on a Mac, except perhaps on the higher-end Mac Pro models. Playing on substandard hardware will result in low frame rates, which is more likely to cause motion sickness and often makes games unplayable. Obviously, they do not want to support that.

    This is before one even takes into account the relative maturity of DirectX compared to Metal.

    This really shouldn’t come as a surprise. The graphics hardware in Macs has been, since the Intel switch, underwhelming to say the least. Integrated GPUs are barely capable of keeping up with the retina displays on modern hardware, and the discrete GPUs found in higher-end Macs is still typically on the low end of the midrange.

    Yes, Macs are often used in postproduction, but a) not as often as one thinks and b) postproduction does not require realtime rendering. Postproduction video and 3D graphics are about precision, not speed. Special effects are previewed at low quality, then take and extended period of time to render the final product. This is fine for postproduction; as long as the final export is good, the time is less of a concern.

    I’m an Apple fan, and have been for decades. But they’ve been waaaaay behind the competition when it comes to gaming since at least the nineties, and they’ve never really made a good effort to catch up. Every few years they make a huge announcement about a new push for gaming, and they never follow through on it. Valve made a huge push around 2008, and even that fizzled out.

    Lashing out at someone who points out the obvious is kind of sad, you guys. Even if he’s being snarky about it, he’s not wrong. When it comes to gaming, Apple hardware is NOT up to snuff. Look at the benchmarks of a Mac GPU, then look at the performance of an Nvidia GTX 980. They aren’t even in the same league.

    I don’t play enough to make owning a gaming PC a worthwhile investment, but that doesn’t mean I fly off the handle and insist that a billion-dollar industry is dying and not worth any sort of consideration. Windows machines often suck at UI and finish, but Apple sucks at gaming. That’s the stark reality.

    • My counter-point is that the drive for this high-end VR gaming experience seems kind of old-fashioned to me. Most consumers seem to value mobility, flexibility and low cost so much that they are unwilling to make the trade-off needed to have a bulky, heavy and costly desktop (or a more nimble, but even more expensive laptop!).

      At the same time, Apple seem to be able to deliver increasingly better gfx performance on its mobile devices – and I don’t see any hindrance to Apple making the iPhone capable of delivering a VR and AR experience that targets the above-mentioned needs for mobility etc. That solution would include a headset for the iPhone and perhaps a controller of some kind, and the flip side would be lower performance and less immersion. However, I have no doubt that it would reach more consumers and be used more and in more scenarios (conference-calling via FaceTime in VR comes to mind. Multiplayer games, each player using his/her own iPhone could be another use of this technology).

      Palmer Luckey could be disrupted before his product has even taken off in the sales charts. And for the gamers, a PS4 VR product seems fairly attractive.

    • stevelawrence - 8 years ago

      The backlash has come from the quote that Oculus will not support Mac until Apple make “a good computer”. To suggest that the Mac is not a “good” computer simply because it doesn’t meet the minimum requirements of an incredibly niche gaming peripheral is short-sighted at best, deliberately inflammatory at worst.

  37. Palmer Luckey, ship the Ocuus Rift before speaking about the Mac’s power and learn how to write SDKs….. You were the first out there in VR (I was a kickstarter backer) and now you’re going to be almost the last shipping on, with less specs than your competitors (Vive and Sony). Almost every Oculus SDK release broke things and you had to deal with a new mess at each round…. May be the Mac “is not powerful enough” because, over there, if you do such indecent things users and developers will rage at you, so better to blame Apple rather than your development team ! For high end stuff beyond vanilla Gear VR I’ll probably go PS, developing with Unity on a Mac….. A full PS4 is costing almost the same as one of your “good enough” graphic boards for a microwave oven that you’re supposed to put in your living room.
    Forget Oculus, it was a nice dream but now it’s bummer…. I just wonder what they did with all the money that Zuckerberg put there: Oculus was the first and the best, now they managed to ship late an inferior product.

  38. Howie Isaacks - 8 years ago

    Piss on this guy and piss on Oculus Rift. I would take an original 1984 Macintosh over any brand new top of the line Windows PC any day. After this week having to deal with a customer’s malware ridden Windows PC, my hatred of Windows is even more intense.

  39. mauseri - 8 years ago

    Wow, it is fascinating to see how emotions affect judgement and attitudes of people. Naturally Mr. Luckey was extremely unfair and rude in his comments, but I would not suggest letting your anger to influence your view of the world and technology.

    Apple is already working hard on their own VR solution and has been hiring people for the topic since long time now. I expect some official news quite shortly and I also expect nothing less than excellence on this product as well. Unfortunately for time being PC platform is only option due to performance reasons. However Oculus was already overtaken significantly by HTC Vive, offering much more immersive room scale experience compared to 95% sitting down by Oculus.

    VR technology offers incredible experiences for entertainment and great value to business (engineering, sales, training, operation) solutions. Social stuff is most likely coming too, but I believe this will be further down the road.

    I just hope that Apple community will keep an open mind for the topic, even though initially it will not fit our mobile and desktop solutions. Of course it is perfectly fine to be skeptical or even totally disregard the solution, but I wish people would not do it due to one ignorant guy making idiotic statement.

  40. Vincent Conroy - 8 years ago

    I have a very difficult time believing that a Mac Pro’s 12-core processor won’t help make up for the lack of video capability in its two discrete graphics cards…

  41. Migi (@MiiiiGiiii) - 8 years ago

    How frustrating some people can react. the fact is that the Rift and the HTC Vive are headsets with two built-for-VR Samsung OLED displays with a 1080 × 1200 per-eye resolution – 90Hz global refresh pushing 233 million pixels per second.
    If he says the 6000 dollar Mac Pro can not handle it then i think its a real shame. I dont know if he is correct, but it is a shame.

    Im using since a year the Homido VR Headset with my iPhone 6 and its simply AMAZING! and that’s what? 1334 x 750 pixels bij 326 ppi. There are a few hundred VR Apps in the iTunes store and more coming everyday. People have no idea how fantastic Virtual Reality is. and those who have not tried it should not be so negative about the whole thing, simply because it doesnt work on the Mac, and somebody is saying it.
    I have also used Android apps with VR, they have more apps, but the quality of iOS is obviously much better, smoother.

    Been following Oculus Rift and HTC Vive since the beginning and for me the HTC Vive wins easely.
    I think/hope Apple will come with a system that will blow away Rift and Vive. and will be the best again, as in almost everyting. And i bet THEN all you people who are negative want to have it the first day. because its from Apple.

    I will build a PC with parts, a 6700K, GTX970/980 and buy the HTC Vive, Roomscale Holodeck!!! and hopefully in a few years Apple’s VR System as my second generation VR system.

    Or… knowing Apple, with making the iphone lighter and lighter, will build a VR system with the iPhone’s as screen. like Gear VR. since the HTC Vive weights 555 grams.
    But then they should get 4K screens. and someway more powerfull graffics, if you want to compete PC build VR.
    Mind you, there is a huge difference in mobile processor VR and PC processor VR, so i hope the Mac will be as powerfull in GPU as it should be, and as it could be. You want the best, dont you? Perhaps apple could use this new LI-Fi technic… wireless… since the only negative thing about the Vive and Rift is that its wired. Not possible over Wifi.

    This is interesting, so you can understand more why you need a powerfull GPU:

    720p @ 30 hz: 27 million pixels/sec
    1080p @ 60 hz: 124 million pixels/sec
    30″ Monitor 2560×1600 @ 60 hz: 245 million pixels/sec
    4K Monitor 4096x1680x2 @ 90 hz: 265 million Pixels/sec
    VR 1512x1680x2 @ 90 hz: 457 million pixels/sec

  42. Brett Huhn - 8 years ago

    Maybe the “Occulus Rift” needs to work with regular graphics instead of relying on the computer to do all of the work. Seems like the PC involved should not have to carry the heavy load of the work involved in the visuality of the software and should be better written so that they can run their VR software on ANYTHING. Blaming Apple is simply a cop out from a frustrated developer. There it is folks. The Apple PC does everything well except for the Occulus? Whatever sirs, this is simply a copout.

  43. Jonathan Brusco - 8 years ago

    Please! I went through 3-4 PCs before switching to mac years ago. My original 17″ MCP is still going strong after about 10 years. Now its my dad’s computer. The battery is toast but that can be replaced. He still uses it, my next MCP 15″ is being used by my in laws. The point is that they both still work, without fuss, the only reason I upgraded was because I wanted/needed newer machines.

  44. That’s just bad marketing. Pretty sure if Apple wanted to they could release a better solution.

  45. Andrew Benson - 8 years ago

    The Macs have been lacking this very-high-end GPU for awhile now. I was discussing this with a buddy a month or two ago who does video editing both for his full-time job and as an independent, and he was discussing the lack of high-end GPU in newer Macs. He said he’s always used Mac and loves it but that if he had to buy a new system today it would be a Windows box because of this lack. This is a use case which used to be automatically Mac for many people, but clearly Apple should at least have AN option here.

    This aside, the oculus guy’s a prick.

  46. James (@JamesJingYi) - 8 years ago

    I don’t really get it. I can play GTA V on High (not Ultra) settings on my 2K monitor at 115 fps with dual D300s. Maybe this is because of crossfire that it works so well but surely one D700 would be able to handle this and much more? I can understand that the GPUs are old but surely they can run the stuff he is saying.

  47. Sergey Bort - 8 years ago

    Always nice to hear a runny-nosed dude from a tiny hobby-project company criticize a generally brilliant company like Apple. Kind of funny. Seriously though. Apple tends to use GPU chips that have been tested to not fail over time, and if its not the HIGHEST end but a HIGH end chip that passes the test of time, they will use it in order to make sure a 3000K MacBook Pro Retina wont go to s**t after a year and a half due to a faulty yet powerful GUP chip. It’s a very logical tradeoff, in my opinion. The way I see it, if Nvidia and And AMD made chips that are were powerful AND had a long enough life span, everyone would win (even the nerdy dude from Oculus :P ). But unfortunately they don’t, and Apple is stuck putting high-end but not super-high-end chips in it’s machines.

  48. pika2000 - 8 years ago

    I don’t know. For me, it’s more like Palmer saying “Apple, can you give me some new shiny Mac Pros for free? Maybe then I’ll work with you.”

  49. Artur Amaral Jr - 8 years ago

    i love how anything not overtly pro apple/mac is immediately shot down by everyone on this site is “Who needs it” hahah isn’t that what you guys said about widgets, and wearables and i think even steve jobs once said it about tablets? Why can’t we all just get along.

  50. coops2212 - 8 years ago

    Seriously, who is going to wear that ridiculous headset for more than a novelty second. VR may be the future, but it’s not in this incarnation; you can take that to the bank.

  51. I don’t know, you can still stick a NVIDIA TITAN in a 2013 Mac Pro (pre-trashcan). I’ve been looking at picking one up. Dual 3.46 Xeons, 32g RAM, and the ability to still run modern video cards for less than the price of the 5k iMac sounds tempting to me. Trying to decide between that and Hackintoshing it….

  52. The problem is not Apple not producing “good computers”, but Oculus not being able to produce “good programming code” and API’s. How come many developers favours developing for Apple for precisely the opposite reasons, that Apple computers actually runs more effectively?

  53. Colby Fulton - 8 years ago

    How is it possible that dual FirePro 500s or 700s can’t run VR? They can power two 4k screens just fine.

Author

Avatar for Chance Miller Chance Miller

Chance is an editor for the entire 9to5 network and covers the latest Apple news for 9to5Mac.

Tips, questions, typos to chance@9to5mac.com